How hard can it be?

[Nicola_M]

Okay, so I wanted to scale some luggage, that someone else made, for a helicopter. The luggage is in xplane obj format.

Reading that Marginal did Blender AND the xplane2Blender, I figured that was the best to try, as Sketchup still needed another plugin to read/write xplane obj files anway, whereas at least Marginals ones should at least talk the same language.

So I went here and downloaded xp2b version 3.09 noting that it says it "requires Blender 2.4x."
And here to download the Blender 2.40 exe file.


Great, I install Blender onto my system (WinXP) but not sure where to put the bundle of loose files in the xp2b zipfile. I left them all in a temporary folder in My Documents and ran Blender. And then hit the Install icon in the xp2b folder.
No problems there.

Back into Blender and I try to import the luggage.obj file from its location.  No, I get a box telling me I have Blender 2.40 and "xp2b is written for 2.43."  Even though the page I got xp2b from said it needs 2.4x. grrr

So I uninstall Blender 2.40 and back I go to the download page and download Blender 2.43 and go through the installation again. And re-hit the xp2b install icon.

And back into Blender and try to import the luggage.obj file.  I can see it, I can highlight it, but I can't open or import the damn thing. I can double click on it left, right and centre but it just won't open.  The help page in the xp2b folder is a dead link, and the Blender Quick Start manual is a bit too advanced. Right now all I want to do is import a file, not design an airport.

I've spent most of this evening just trying vainly to resize a bloody suitcase, and I still haven't managed to even open the file. 

I know Blender has a steep learning curve, but this is ridiculous.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Nicola_M

[Nicola_M]

So I'm giving up, uninstalled it, going back to painting.

But that's the problem - how many others have been deterred from taking up making something for xplane, because Blender is unnecessarily complicated?

 

A short beginners manual explaining what should be installed where, and more importantly, what files should be downloaded, would go a long way to getting people into making things for xp.

[Ben Russell]

Blender is like Linux, it's only free if you have the time.

[Nicola_M]

Yeah, I had a whole evening's "time" to learn how to open a file.  And still failed.

How hard should Import item/Work on item be?

[Ben Russell]

When you're dealing with an obscure file format that uses the same file extension as a very widely used and popular format I'd say that you're pretty much screwed from the word go.

 

Most tools have been focused on getting data into OBJ files, not out of them... import has traditionally been crap at best.

 

A lot of artists don't care either, its a poor mans form of DRM when its difficult to modify the 3D assets.

[Nicola_M]

Hmm, I wouldn't mind but it wasn't exactly helpful being given misleading information on the xp2b page in the first place.

 

I get the DRM stuff, but the author of the luggage actually suggested Blender and xp2b to resize his luggage in his readme.

But I agree; it wasn't the most helpful of things to make it the size a bloody Yeti would carry anyway.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Nicola_M

[guym-p]

Much as I admire Blender and its enormous capabilities, I have always found it unnecessarily complicated to achieve the most basic things.  By contrast, AC3D looks like software from the 1990s, and appears to be light on features, but what it does it does well.  I use Blender for its advanced lighting effects, but only once the model is made.  I prefer AC3D for modelling, animating unwrapping and laying out a texture UV map, and exporting to OBJ8.

[Nicola_M]

Thanks Guy.  I just found that trying to even get Blender, XP2Blender and Python all working together just killed off all the enthusiasm right out of me.

In the space of one evening, I went from wanting to modify something, then to creating my own instead, to "I just can't be bothered, sod it."

Great success story.

 

It's no wonder we have so many empty airports, if that's what happens to others.

[guym-p]

That's a real nuisance.  I have only ever used Blender in its vanilla state; I have never tried XP2Blender.  Commiserations, etc ...

[liser]

Just in case you want to try a bit more...

 

- Install blender 2.49b from: http://download.blender.org/release/Blender2.49b/

- Install Marginal's script. I usually take it from here ('Download ZIP' button): https://github.com/Marginal/XPlane2Blender

- Place the OBJ and its texture in the same folder

- Import using File>Import>X-Plane Object

- Scale the object pressing S key and scaling to your needs

- Apply the scale by pressing CTRL+A>Scale to ObData

- Save the file CTRL+W or F2

- Export using Export>X-Plane Object

 

Hope it helps!

In any case, if you want more advice PM me.

Edited October 25, 2013 by liser

[tkyler]

how many others have been deterred from taking up making something for xplane, because Blender is unnecessarily complicated?

 

I downloaded and dumped it 6...count it, "SIX" times before I finaly stuck with it.   I would not describe blender as unnecessarily complicated because anything you don't know how to do can be labeled as such, but what is lacking is decent information and communication about it and how to get things done and where the pitfalls are.  There is a lot to take in so posts are a difficult way to convey the potential pitfalls along the road.  In 2014, I hope to start a comprehensive training program on developing for x-plane and through videos and blogs, provide step by step information on how to do things.  While Dan has provided his great aircraft series, its a narrow range of information he covers and all the pitfalls are not discussed, nor advanced techniques.   I reallly want to make it my  mission to get folks having fun developing for x-plane.

 

If you use the blender 2.4 series, then you need to use the Blender 2.49b version.  You can find it by googling for older blender installations.  If you use this older version of blender, then its probable you must have an older version of python installed on your system, like Python 2.7.  It is entirely possible than blender 2.49b will not work with the newest versions of Python.   If you have multiple versions of python installed on your systems or you have a newer version only, then there is probably some magic dance you have to do to get the older system on there and TELL your system which version of python you have to use....indeed these are the initial headaches.   I've been working on the older version of pythong 2.7 for a while now...I know this works with blender 2.49b.

 

Once you get the proper versions of blender and python installed, then you have to obtain the proper scripts and locate them in the proper place.  This is different on windows than it is on mac...and furthermore, you have the ability to set a path in blender to point it to the scripts so really...while there is a "proper place" for scripts...technically, you can leave the blender2xplane scripts anywhere you want and point blender to it through its preferences pane, which can confuse things a bit more.  There are lots of buttons to push and lots of things to check along the way which is why a post is not a good way to convey.  A video would be better and I promise one day I'll have one.

 

The next "surprise" might be that after you get these scripts installed and try to import stuff, you'll find that these old scripts do NOT support a lot of the newer commands that OBJ files have so the script will 'choke' when trying to import objects....and in those cases, you have to go into the OBJ text file and strip out the lines causing blender to choke.   For simple mesh objects that do not have complex animations though, the import usually goes fine.    The final surprise is that when you do an import, the mesh is imported relative to blender's 3D cursor position, so if the cursor is NOT at the 0, 0, 0 position, then the mesh will import in the wrong location and when you export it back out to replace whatever it is you were trying to improve, then it will be in the wrong spot....and on and on it goes.

 

Liser has a good summary above....and will work if none of a few potential "gotchas" crop up but you can address those on a case by case if needed.

TomK

Edited October 25, 2013 by tkyler

[Sethesus]

... as Sketchup still needed another plugin to read/write xplane obj files anway,

 

I don't quite understand what you're saying here.  Marginal has created Sketchup scripts for importing and exporting, and they are quite good for both.  And not even mentioning how easy it is.

 

Second file on the list:  http://marginal.org.uk/x-planescenery/tools.html

[Nicola_M]

Thanks Tom and Liser. 

 

Liser, I had Blender 2.49b and xplane2Blender 3.09.  I got a box up that said there was no Python installed, and stating it was compiled with python 2.5.2.. but I couldn't find a 2.5.2 anywhere - there's a 2.4 and a 2.6, so wasn't sure where to go from there. I may try 2.7 see if that gets me any further.

 

Tom

I can't believe in 15+ yrs of xplane, we're still having to create stuff using software that's the equivalent of Chinese Whispers.  Having 3 different programs with little to no installation documentation, and installation ends up being pure guesswork based on the hope that all three programs are of compatible versions to talk to each other is what I class as unnecessarily complicated.

If one really wanted to make something extremely difficult for someone to do something, yeah, I'd probably do all of the above.

 

So, it's great you're thinking of doing some training.

[Redfisher]

There are alternatives to Blender...but they're not free.  The newer versions of Blender (to me) are getting closer to many of the commercial 3d modeling products out there. Hopefully, the scripts can get updated to the newer versions of Blender.  

[Nicola_M]

I don't quite understand what you're saying here.  Marginal has created Sketchup scripts for importing and exporting, and they are quite good for both.  And not even mentioning how easy it is.

 

Second file on the list:  http://marginal.org.uk/x-planescenery/tools.html

What I meant was -

 

For Blender you need Blender & a.n.other (ie xplane2blender)

For Sketchup you still need Blender & a.n.other (ie su2xp)

 

One day I hope there'll be a Blender or Sketchup that does away with the need for either of the add-ons.  It's the add-ons that gave me the headache.  I didn't get as far as getting a Blender headache.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Nicola_M

[Sethesus]

Ah, I understand now, and I completely agree with you.

[Ben Russell]

I looked at Sketchup again about two weeks ago and it appears that Google have sold it off (put it to pasture) and washed their hands of it.

 

No more free version that I could see... only had a quick look, was very disappointed. It's not like they have a couple of billion spare or anything.

[Sethesus]

It's still free:  http://www.sketchup.com/products/sketchup-make

 

But I refuse to upgrade to the Trimble version.

[ilias.tselios]

Liser, I had Blender 2.49b and xplane2Blender 3.09.  I got a box up that said there was no Python installed, and stating it was compiled with python 2.5.2.. but I couldn't find a 2.5.2 anywhere - there's a 2.4 and a 2.6, so wasn't sure where to go from there. I may try 2.7 see if that gets me any further.

 

I'm running flawlessly blender 2.49/XPlane2Blender 3.10 final, in my MacbookPro with Python 2.7.5 installed.

 

 

There are alternatives to Blender...but they're not free.  The newer versions of Blender (to me) are getting closer to many of the commercial 3d modeling products out there. Hopefully, the scripts can get updated to the newer versions of Blender.  

 

I'm following closely Blender's development and what is happening is that blender is considered as a top notch 3D application equivalent with the best costing thousands of dollars. The only thing that keeps actually blender at this point not be fully implemented by big studios is the lack of commercial support. What actually you buy in the other 3d apps is that you pay thousands, but you have at the other end of the "telephone line" someone to solve any problem. A studio will not go to a support forum to ask for help...

[Redfisher]

A very good read here.  If the interface could only get a makeover.

[ilias.tselios]

Yes Andrew's (Blendeguru) proposal is a bold one, but generally not conceived positively from the most hardcore users. My opinion is that, yes blender needs a UI makeover and I agree in the most parts with Andrew, but there are other things I would like to see most. Like baking textures with cycles will be a huge plus in gaming industry.

 

There is an on-going blender conference taking place now (http://www.youtube.com/user/BlenderFoundation/videos) and the positive thing is that at least one of the Andrew's proposals have been accepted. Blender Foundation will create a UI team to address UI problems. Although is not a bold, still is a positive step. 

[Ben Russell]

blender just had a huge makeover...  what they need is some decent tutorial content. preferably video.

[liser]

My opinion is that, yes blender needs a UI makeover and I agree in the most parts with Andrew, but there are other things I would like to see most. Like baking textures with cycles will be a huge plus in gaming industry.

 

I'm using blender for about 8 years now and for my taste, blender has a very powerful UI once you get used to it, it's very fast. However, of course it has flaws, but in my opinion it doesn't need such a hard makeover, just changing a few things would do it. And yes, it needs a lot more documentation/tutorials and you have to have time and patience to learn it.

Baking with cycles would be such a milestone!

[Nicola_M]

does anyone know if sketchup is any better for importing objects to work on?

[Sethesus]

I find it pretty easy, but I have no experience with other programs.  I would suggest you try it out, and see if you like it.