"Linux is the future of gaming"

[Ben Russell]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/09/gabe-newell-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-new-hardware-coming-soon/

 

Gabe Newell, the co-founder and managing director of Valve, said today that Linux is the future of gaming despite its current minuscule share of the market.

That seems hard to believe, given that Newell acknowledged Linux gaming generally accounts for less than one percent of the market by any measure including players, player minutes, and revenue. But Valve is going to do its best to make sure Linux becomes the future of gaming by extending its Steam distribution platform to hardware designed for living rooms.

Emphasis added.

[MdMax]

Android is based on a Linux kernel. Ask Google if you want to know how many thousands of gaming apps they're selling every day on the Play Store.

[Mario Donick]

I guess for serious flight simulation (i.e. NOT the XP android apps), only the number of Linux gamers on the desktop is important.

[Ntr09]

Well I'll just say this, I use Linux Mint as my primary OS on all my systems and it is a great platform for gaming, it just needs more titles. If Valve fixes that soon, what he said will be true.

Until then, it will still be "all work and no play", but that doesn't mean it's a "dull boy".

 

X-Plane runs quite well on it by the way. 

 

-NR

[john82088]

I will have to check Linux Mint out. I have always had an interest in using Linux.

[alpilotx]

All of my scenery work (and the flying too) was done under Linux ... Ever since X-Plane 8 came out and was the first commercial sim supporting Linux (that was the time when I deleted Windows from my HDD).

 

PS: me working with Linux only was an additional factor for Ben Supnik to continue the Linux support (which was questioned for a short time when they moved from XP8 to XP9)

[LoseMagnet]

Same for me, GNU/Linux is my primary OS, it works perfectly and it's a great platform for gaming.

But I regret that Teamspeak 2 is not working on Linux, I also regret when the Linux support of a plane is dropped without informing officially the customers who bought it.

Edited September 17, 2013 by LoseMagnet

[MdMax]

You're right Mario, when talking about Valve or X-Plane, or "serious" gaming, it's not the same topic as mobile gaming with Android (Linux), iOS (BSD) or other mobile operating systems or even console games. I just wanted to say, when you're looking at the revenues, it has become a very important market, and they're also using a Linux kernel:
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Google-Play-now-makes-more-in-gaming-revenue-than-Nintendo-or-Sony_id46671
 
Austin (or Ben) where also talking about this in a FSBreak interview, but this was before the case with a patent troll.
 
 
Will Valve be able to convince Windows gamers to switch to their new hardware running with Linux ? I don't know. Will the Microsoft and PC manufacturers cartel be able to preserve the Windows "market share" ? I don't know.
 
Was Microsoft able to convince Windows users to switch to their new "Windows 8" operating system ? The answer for now is no. To illustrate this, just look at the latest MSFS add-on, the 777 by PMDG, and their minimum system requirements: "OS: Windows 7 64-bit (older OSes such as Windows XP, 32-bit OSes, and Windows 8 may work, but we cannot guarantee compatibility or support)". What's the future for Windows if the newest version has no support from famous add-on authors known for their endorsement to Microsoft ?

It looks like Gabe Newell is not the only editor who has a problem with the future of Windows.
 

PS: me working with Linux only was an additional factor for Ben Supnik to continue the Linux support (which was questioned for a short time when they moved from XP8 to XP9)

 

That's another reason why I think we're lucky that you're in the Laminar Research team.

 

I also regret when the Linux support of a plane is dropped without informing officially the customers who bought it.

 

+1. For me and for you, it was not a surprise because we're reading forums. But imagine the customer who bought this add-on, received an e-mail from the store about the new version, installed this new version (the Linux installer worked great and was still there), and who discovered inside X-Plane that's there's no plug-in for him...

 

[LoseMagnet]

+1. For me and for you, it was not a surprise because we're reading forums. But imagine the customer who bought this add-on, received an e-mail from the store about the new version, installed this new version (the Linux installer worked great and was still there), and who discovered inside X-Plane that's there's no plug-in for him...

Absolutely. I received three email notifications from X-Aviation, they did not precise that the Linux support has been stopped. It was quite confusing :

 

General changes:

• New, friendlier activation system
• X-Plane 10 compatible only
• 64-bit compatible only

 

Edited September 17, 2013 by LoseMagnet

[Ben Russell]

I guess I should have quoted this, too:

 

But Valve is going to do its best to make sure Linux becomes the future of gaming by extending its Steam distribution platform to hardware designed for living rooms.

 

So basically even Valve accept that it's never going to be a mainstream desktop event.

 

They're going to make it the future of gaming, by making(or licensing) their own gaming hardware.

 

Sounds an awful lot like a Console to me... convergence. Not a bad thing.

 

 

 

This thread is a little bit tongue in cheek from me.

 

I want to support Linux, but it's very hard to justify the time put into it.

It's a justifcation on-top-of all the other justifications I've already made about the time I spend on X-Plane.

 

At the moment I spend all my programming time on contract work, I haven't put any work into X-Plane for a couple of months now.

 

I'm still waiting for X-Plane to pay off the last 2.5 years I put into Gizmo.

 

 

 

If only we had $256M budgets and 5 year time frames, like some of the games people love to compare X-Plane to.

We don't. It's just that simple.

[alpilotx]

Do you guys know the Humblebundle (pay as much as you want game bundles) Indie Games sales:

https://www.humblebundle.com/

(yes, I have bought most of them, as I find this is a cool idea and many of the games are good too)

 

Now there are statistics about previous / ongoing bundles:

http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humble

 

The interesting thing is, that they usually have far more than 1% Linux users (I looked at the number of packages, not just the price - because the Linux users pay much more on average than the Windows users). They usually go around 5-6% Linux users, but some of the bundles went even as high as 9-10% ...

 

So yes, its still not mainstream .... but the niche is growing ...

[MdMax]

For living rooms, they'll need console games. All the games I bought with my Steam account are designed for a keyboard + mouse. Most games I bought are not available on Steam, and their vendors don't even know I'm using them on Linux.

 

When I have the choice between Steam and the original store (like the last game I purchased: Kerbal Space Program), I buy it from the author's store.

 

GNU/Linux users are a minority, but I consider the "1%" as an urban legend especially for the X-Plane market. I hope you'll find help to build a Linux version for Gizmo. As long as there's not this support, aircraft authors using your plug-in will miss some customers.

 

Edited September 17, 2013 by MdMax

[Cameron]

GNU/Linux users are a minority, but I consider the "1%" as an urban legend especially for the X-Plane market.

 

You know we track these stats with our installers, right? It's not an urban legend...at least not from our paid for add-ons standpoint.

[Ben Russell]

I never mentioned the input device.

 

One of my pet hates about Consoles is the lack of input options.

 

If they can push "PC Games" with fallbacks to GamePad controller layouts they'll have a serious winner.

(and that's a pretty trivial challenge.)

 

 

I've been a Console gamer for a few years now; for the convenience.

I know the graphics aren't as good.

I know the input isn't as precise.

I miss both.

 

But I still prefer the appliance-dumb simplicity of using a Console to unwind.

 

 

 

Just had a quick look at the stats for X-Pilot: it's about 6% Linux traffic.

[MdMax]

You know we track these stats with our installers, right? It's not an urban legend...at least not from our paid for add-ons standpoint.

 

Global stats for the X-Aviation installers can't give you a market share, especially if you don't subtract the numbers for 5 of your only Mac & Windows products:

Corvalis, Falco, Jetstream, DC-3, and now also the MU-2

[Cameron]

Global stats for the X-Aviation installers can't give you a market share

 

You would like to believe that, except there's a problem here...

 

Remember, I'm concerned ONLY about our own potential take of market. Not everyone on the X-Plane platform will buy 3rd party add-ons.

 

All of our RealScenery products and ILM package, as WELL as our TWO #1 selling products on the store INCLUDE (or did up until just 2 months ago) Linux.

 

I beg to differ.

[Ben Russell]

 As long as there's not this support, aircraft authors using your plug-in will miss some customers.

 

 

This is a ridiculously narrow minded and selfish point of view.

 

Gizmo allows artists to free themselves from the tedious job of fighting with a compiler for not one platform but upto THREE.

 

Instead of spending a week figuring out how to compile and link (whatever that means) the sound library so they can make a beep noise, they can create a complete 3D sound engine with rich fidelity and feature sets.

 

Gizmo, whether you like it or not, is dragging X-Plane kicking and screaming from its dark ages.

 

It will go a long way to building the customer base that X-Plane so sorely needs.

 

The customer base that will provide the profit margin and focused time, to allow us to build Linux support, so that you can all just be happy, and the artist is free to build great things with much detail - instead of living on in mediocre buggy compiler hell.

 

 

You have it entirely the wrong way around.

 

How can I be so sure?

 

Not even one artist using Gizmo has asked about Linux support, I have plenty of other feature requests though, to let them make cool things more easily, faster and with less time spent chasing script bugs.

[pryoski]

You know we track these stats with our installers, right? It's not an urban legend...at least not from our paid for add-ons standpoint.

 

People often appear to forget that the vendor has to make an income out of this as well. They'd have to be some masochistic beastie if they developed just for the heck of it .. considering the amount of criticism that they seem to regularly cop; I'd hate to be a developer!

From an impartial statistical perspective though, this figure is skewed because of the addons that do support Linux, there are only a subset of Linux users who will buy that addon. Consequently the numbers become vanishingly small!

E.g; Of the Linux users in the X-Plane community, how many of them were motivated to buy the CRJ-200?

My point is .. that if Linux users want to make their presence felt, they need to organize and mobilize ... so when an addon appears that does support Linux, they can skew the stats in their favour by uniting/mobilising to make every purchase to count. This is the only way Linux users can provide a positive message that they are a purchasing power that requires consideration .. IMO.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Kris Pryo

[Cameron]

E.g; Of the Linux users in the X-Plane community, how many of them were motivated to buy the CRJ-200?
My point is .. that if Linux users want to make their presence felt, they need to organize and mobilize ... so when an addon appears that does support Linux, they can skew the stats in their favour by uniting/mobilising to make every purchase to count. This is the only way Linux users can provide a positive message that they are a purchasing power that requires consideration .. IMO.

 

Well, at least someone gets it.

[LoseMagnet]

Hi Cameron,

You know we track these stats with our installers, right? It's not an urban legend...at least not from our paid for add-ons standpoint.

For my curiosity, how do you track a Windows installer working on a Linux platform?

 

[Cameron]

For my curiosity, how do you track a Windows installer working on a Linux platform?

 

First off,

 

That is an old as dirt installer. If that was taken recently, I highly suggest you upgrade.

 

To answer the question: each platform specific installer contains a method for sending OS info to the server which speaks to our scripts.

 

If you're trying to use some form of a virtual machine as an argument, sorry, but it doesn't hold water. Not only can we decipher, but we also have these other aircraft which sell in rather large quantity which ship with native Linux installers. Naturally, it would be silly as ever for a customer to use a VM to install on their platform when a native installer exists...

[LoseMagnet]

Hi,

E.g; Of the Linux users in the X-Plane community, how many of them were motivated to buy the CRJ-200?

My point is .. that if Linux users want to make their presence felt, they need to organize and mobilize ... so when an addon appears that does support Linux, they can skew the stats in their favour by uniting/mobilising to make every purchase to count. This is the only way Linux users can provide a positive message that they are a purchasing power that requires consideration .. IMO.

I agree and it is what happens with the Humble Bundle : Linux users provide between 10% and 25% of the revenue.

Regarding X-Plane, X-aviation does not provide a good signals for Linux users :

- Linux support of (at least) one product has been stopped

- no information, no notification for the Linux customers who bought the product.

 

I own few X-aviation products (Realscenery, CRJ200, Mu-2, Beechcraft Mentor T34C). These product are very good but now I will think twice before buying a new product because I do not want this to happen again. At least, it would be fair to inform people.

[Cameron]

no information, no notification for the Linux customers who bought the product.

 

Can I ask...what real difference does this make? I'm genuinely curious. It was pretty well publicized in the forums, and you seem to be grasping at anything you can (like the fact the newsletter dismissed this or something). I don't see the point. If it doesn't work...then it doesn't work.

 

The product which stopped Linux support was built in 2008. There were absolutely ZERO ways to surmise we would ultimately drop the support for Linux. There's not much more to be said here if you guys can't get in a row and back your platform with sales. You all are extremely vocal, but when push comes to shove the substance is never provided (or hasn't been). 

 

EDIT: Think about what I just said there...we gave you guys FIVE years to prove your market on that product alone. It didn't happen!

 

I own few X-aviation products (Realscenery, CRJ200, Mu-2, Beechcraft Mentor T34C). These product are very good but now I will think twice before buying a new product because I do not want this to happen again. At least, it would be fair to inform people.

 

Whether you choose to continue to purchase or not in the future is of course your right. I know you'll be missing out on some fantastic stuff (or maybe not since Linux hasn't been supported as of late, so maybe this doesn't matter), and to me if I were a diehard Linux user I don't see the point with limiting my offerings and not showing support for my platform (especially if I'm content with what already works), but whatever floats your boat! You'd only be hurting your own desires and cause.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Cameron

[LoseMagnet]

Cameron,

 

I want to be crystal clear with you :

- I am not trying to force anyone to support Linux. If a designer does not want to provide a Linux version, he has his own reasons and it is his business.

- but I regret when a support is stopped without official notice. just a small notice like "PS : Dear Linux users, we regret to inform you that the support for your platform is currently interrupted for this reason and this one (marketshare, plugin, anything)", with a correct English (not like mines   because English is not my native language). I feel a little bit embarrassed when you write "Can I ask...what real difference does this make?" because for me it is quite obvious, it is just a matter of respect for your customers, even if the represent 0.0001% of your revenue and you think you can ignore them. The information was provided in the forums, right, but I do not read them offen. But I read the emails messages I receive from you.

 

 You all are extremely vocal,

 

Ermm, actually I wrote only 4 messages on this forum (5 with this one) and I did not complain to you or on this forum when it happened.

[Cameron]

Ermm, actually I wrote only 4 messages on this forum (5 with this one) and I did not complain to you or on this forum when it happened.

 

This was a generalization of ALL Linux users. Not you alone.

 

 

 

I feel a little bit embarrassed when you write "Can I ask...what real difference does this make?" because for me it is quite obvious, it is just a matter of respect for your customers, even if the represent 0.0001% of your revenue and you think you can ignore them. The information was provided in the forums, right, but I do not read them offen. But I read the emails messages I receive from you.

 

Don't feel embarrassed about it. I genuinely was curious and still don't view it as wrong, nor do I feel many others would. It would have been a nice, added gesture, but not a necessity to be considered good in business. We make great products, we provide great customer support, and it's known. I gladly say that with confidence and not an ounce of arrogance. The lack of a formal note about Linux support being dropped on a product does not equate to an embarrassing moment in our life cycle as a business. We gladly acknowledged this information in public, so it obviously wasn't about ill intent or a lapse in judgement. It had been known for a while, so this definitely was not at the "top" of our list of things to do in as busy a time as a release period.

 

Bluntly: It makes no difference. It wouldn't have solved anything for you, and the situation overall would not have changed.