Karma

[X-Pilot]

Captains,

I've received numerous messages today asking what the karma feature is on the forums. If you're not familiar with what I am speaking about, look just under any posters name in a thread, and you'll see the karma feature located there.

Karma is a reputation rating. It indicates whether people believe you contribute or make good, reliable posts in the forum that are informative, or have a reputation of doing so. You get +1 or -1 point in your Karma based on whether people applaud or smite your posts.

If you think someone makes a positive contribution to the forum, it is encouraged that you acknoweledge this by applauding one's post.

If anyone has any question on this feature, please don't hesitate to inquire about it here!

Blue skies to you all,

X-Pilot Administration

[Donald Traill]

Does everyone start out at "0" or have I benn "smitten" already?

Donald Traill

[MatthewS]

Karma is a reputation rating. It indicates whether people believe you contribute or make good, reliable posts in the forum that are informative, or have a reputation of doing so. You get +1 or -1 point in your Karma based on whether people applaud or smite your posts.

I just "smited" you 5 times on the same post and took your karma back to -1.

Seems rather open to abuse and therefore a little pointless! 

[X-Pilot]

Does everyone start out at "0" or have I benn "smitten" already?

Donald Traill

Donald,

Yes, everyone starts at "0".

I just "smited" you 5 times on the same post and took your karma back to -1.

Seems rather open to abuse and therefore a little pointless!  

We have now re-coded the Karma system. You are no longer able to continually applaud or smite someone for a particular post. Additionally, a log system is now implemented that will show who has applauded or smited an individual, and anyone who uses the system to abuse or try and take down an individual will receive a suspension or ban depending on the severity of the abuse for the system. This does not mean that an individual should be in fear of their membership here for giving a smite or applaud to someone, however, it will be quite evident when someone is abusing the system. As such, be sure you are only giving an applaud or smite to a post because it is your opinion of the post, and not your distaste or liking of a particular individual. Lastly, you must have a minimum of 5 posts to be able to use the Karma system.

[MatthewS]

Excellent changes!

[garrettm30]

I like to watch my own Karma. Today I noticed that my Karma has gone from 4 to 5, and it made me feel so good. Ah, the little things in life! I try to use the Karma feature when reading other posts, and I often follow this guideline:

If you think someone makes a positive contribution to the forum, it is encouraged that you acknoweledge this by applauding one's post.

However, I am not sure about the smite feature. I am hesitant to use it because of how I feel about my own Karma. If I can get so excited to see my Karma go up a point, I wonder how it might hurt someone if I click a smite and they see their Karma go down. For that reason I try to use it sparingly. On the other hand, I also try to be objective with each post I read. I don't mean that I mark every post I read, but posts that stand out to me as fitting what I quoted above I try to applaud. But as for smiting, I haven't seen any guidelines for what a smite is to be used for in this forum. I have to just kind of feel it out for myself. Thus far, I just smite posts that are either character attacks or one of those that relentlessly asks for another post about when an upcoming aircraft is going to be finished.

My own system seems reasonable enough, but that's just the problem: it is MY own. The forum is not my own. It would be nice if we can get a general understanding of what a smite was intended for. I don't mean set rules, so much as a guideline in the same vein as I quoted above for applauds. Or else, maybe a consensus. What do you guys think?

Oh, and friends, please don't hold your applause. It might make someone smile! 

[MaidenFan]

What does it mean if I have -8 as my karma?

[MatthewS]

What does it mean if I have -8 as my karma?

Dunno... but you got -9 now! sorry

[Zach Decou]

The general policy around here is: when there is a progress update, we will post it here. Constantly asking for updates when there are none can be irritating to some. 

[MaidenFan]

It keeps going down!!! How do you rate somebody, because somebody has been rating me bad?

[Kaphias]

Read the first post, it tells you how to use the feature.

[MatthewS]

It keeps going down!!! How do you rate somebody, because somebody has been rating me bad?

You're -24 now... Stop being such a bad person, don't you realise you'll expire once your karma reaches -30.

[garrettm30]

It's hard to tell sometimes when a person is joking just by reading the text, but I think MatthewS is joking. I have never heard that rule, and this is the thread that I would expect to find it in.

[MaidenFan]

I'm not even gonna bother anymore!!! hahahaha

[MatthewS]

I'm not even gonna bother anymore!!! hahahaha

Yes I was joking.  This karma thing is rubbish IMHO.

[garrettm30]

I would like to make a few comments in regards to the discussion about karma that emerged in an unrelated topic (and one interesting in its own right). Lest that topic continue to be be off topic, I have decided to post here. I am responding to some things said in this topic:

http://forums.x-pilot.com/index.php?topic=1251.msg11984#msg11984

Most posts I consider to be neutral, as most conversation is just for conversation, and that's just a part of human social interaction. However, some posts contribute positively to the forum, such that the forum is a tiny bit better because of it. Since karma is the net result of community opinion, naturally what one person thinks is positive or negative may differ somewhat from the next, but the total result is what the community at large thinks is positive or negative. In my case, I will often applaud posts:

Where the member shows a helpful spirit for some problem

The member is especially calm when dealing with some other, difficult member

A post where some useful bit of information is posted

A funny joke that made me enjoy the moment I read it

Even a post where a member disagrees with me or a position I hold but is cordial and open in his manner of disagreement

My personal criteria for smiting (note that I am consciously slower to smite than applaud):

A post is written in an obviously unkind way

A post abusive to another member

A post constantly badgering for updates

I applaud and smite per post rather than per member. There are folks that I have both smitten and applauded at various times. One post he/she makes may be a positive contribution, while another may be negative. If we are all honest with our use of karma, each one of us will probably have a higher number of both positive and negative points to our name. It's only natural that sometimes we may be contribute positively while other times we may detract from the experience in some small way. It's really the total effect of all we post that can be a measure of our value to the community, and that's why I try to use karma on a post basis rather than a personal basis. And if more people participate, then the karma will better reflect the community's opinions of how a particular member contributes overall rather than the opinion of just a few.

Karma has proven to be a positive tool and way on this forum to assist in the change of behavior. In fact, we have seen a couple of people turn around from it in a major way.

At this time, we only have ONE person so deep in the negatives, and we all know who it is. He's a good, enthusiastic person of the forums who is full of excitement, and it doesn't warrant a ban. As time goes on I do see improvement, and we'll always monitor stuff like this.

I have noticed how even the negative karma for this member has resulted in positive change. I have smitten him myself a few times in the past, but he is learning from this. I was so excited the first time I applauded him for a post I thought a positive contribution (and remember, most posts I consider neutral). I really am rooting for him to turn around that karma, and my clicker finger eagerly awaits more opportunities to press "applaud" under his name.

At this time we will not be pulling out the Karma feature. We get many positive comments on it even behind closed doors, and it seems majority of people consider it a "something to work for" type thing.

I am one of those people who finds it a personal achievement every time my karma goes up. It is an incentive to contribute positively, and I think it helps me to have better posts. I also try to be careful to phrase disagreements in a kind way. It does seem, at least in how it affects me, that the karma system does work for general benefit of the community.

I think it's a shame that the karma reflects popularity more than constructive posting, and that people are much more willing to vote karma down than up.

EDIT: I think switching karma off for the rant forum might be a good idea though. Thats a place to blow off some steam and shouldn't really carry karma reward/penalty IMHO.

I agree there is a certain degree of a popularity issue with the use of karma. A person may be reluctant to either applaud or smite a particular post when deserving because because of a bias either for or against a particular person. That's why I try to evaluate on a post by post basis. However, I'm not so sure that people are more willing to smite than applaud. There are only a handful of people with a net negative karma and quite a few people with a net positive karma. I think if we were to take a forum-wide average karma, it would be well in the positive, indicating a general leaning toward more applauding than smiting. I know I particularly lean on the side of applauding, simply because I enjoy applauding but don't like smiting.

It is my opinion that karma within the rant section is also still a good thing. People can make positive contributions even in a rant, and I would like to be able to applaud them. And although we shouldn't ever smite just because we disagree, on very rare occasions someone can be so vicious toward others that I would think a smite warranted even when in a rant. Blowing off steam is one thing, but being hateful toward others is another. I'm not sure that I've ever seen that, though. I guess I'm just talking in principle.

We should be able to see the log of a person's karma history (who voted a person up/down, and a link to the post where it occurred). [...] It's a form of censorship because be people become too "scared" to say something that might affect their karma negatively.

I respectfully but strongly disagree. The karma system is meant to be an anonymous feedback system. If you don't want to be anonymous, you can respond more directly, either in another post or with a private message. If it were not anonymous, people would be afraid of retaliation even when they are in the right to smite a person. EBay serves as an example here. I have encountered sellers that were less than honest and very unprofessional, even unkind. But I don't give negative feedback. Why? Because the folks most deserving of negative feedback are also the kind who would turn around and give me negative feedback as retaliation, hurting my user rating. This is unfortunate because that means I have not alerted future buyers of sellers to avoid. Not all of that example is analogous. I simple mean by it that because it is not anonymous, its effectives at achieving what it was designed for is diminished.

Further, you say it is censorship because some people would be scared to say certain things. I don't see how this is bad. It is positive community pressure. For one thing, karma is really just a number that affects absolutely nothing else on this site. There is nothing to be scared of. It is only relevant to people who actually care what others think of how he/she contributes. Such a person will therefore want feedback to be a better community player. If you don't care how you affect other people, then speak your mind and ignore the number. That little number is nothing but a number. Further, a little bit of pressure to refrain from saying certain things or from saying them in a certain way is not bad. It is both positive and negative incentive for playing nice, and I think that's a good thing in any forum I want to be a part of.

[UH-60 Blackhawk]

I know this is kinda old, but thought it was worth bringing up again.  My opinion is that you should see how people voted on your posts, but not who voted what on them.  So you could see that people must've liked your screenie and hated your rant, but not who liked it and who hated it.

[Sopwith]

Commenting on other peoples Karma is very bad Karma.

[Cameron]

Commenting on other peoples Karma is very bad Karma.

This topic is well over a year old and does not apply to these forums any longer...