SSG Embraer 170

[Michael_Chang]

NOW most of you know me as a person of particular cut-throatiness, and I'll admit, I'm a mean person >

The EMB 170 by SSG.. where to start..

Well firstly I think for it's level, 30 dollars is a little too much...

let's start with the pros:

The aircraft flies nicely, the manuals and complexity of the systems add a new level of realism into flying the plane. The cockpit operates beautifully and doesn't damage my frame rates too much while flying, I'm a huge fan of their texture art inside the cockpit, as it really does add depth and realism to the plane. Flying approaches with this plane is simple and easy, the plane handles quite well, in my view.

cons:

I'm the type of person who really knows how to spot problems with a plane.

Firstly, i have a big beef with the exterior. It's quite lacking in terms of quality. The shape of the fuselage from a distance can be loosely considered ERJ 170. The nose has too little definition where the cone meets the windscreen, there should be sharp edge there, as seen in these screenshots below.

Another notable error is the nose gear and gear doors. Obviously, the nose gear is much too small, and the nose doors are much too large. the ERJ has more rectangular nose doors, and they should be narrowed and reshaped a bit.

• The nose gear itself is also too short/small, as seen in the real image, the ERJ tends to lean more towards the back of the plane rather than the front.
  
• The windscreen of the plane is on the large side, and should be narrowed down a bit.
  
• The wing box fairing is too defined, it should be more smoothly translated between fuselage and wingbox
  
• the winglets look like you stole them off a 737 and glued them on, they are WAY too large.
  
• Texture placement of the forward cargo door is incorrect
  
• location of the nose gear and right side forward door is too far back
  
• Windshield bars are too thin
  
• flap canoes are too rounded, cross section is too circular, it should be more rectangular
  

I'll leave the rest to you, look at these two images and tell me what else can be improved.

I also certainly hope, that in the future, this model gets updated. I know that modellers like Baber sikander are quite talented, and I want to see that talent more evident.

All in all, its an okay plane, but i wouldn't call this payware yet.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Michael_Chang

[Kaphias]

By no stretch of the imagination am I someone who spends a lot of time looking at pictures of the big E-jets like I do with some other metal, but as soon as I saw the screenshots earlier this week I noticed something was up with the nose. I'd almost put this in the same category as the 747 hump fiasco, but the E-170 is no 747.

I stand by my earlier opinion: If you can do it right in Planemaker, then you darn well should be able to do it right in Blender.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Kaphias

[Hampster]

PLEASE put your time and effort into making planes and helping people, I come to X-Pilot for happy news about X-Plane and their great bunch of 'give it a try' developers...

Ever since you've been posting these threads, this website has changed from friendly chat to FSX type conversations on how planes should look. I don't know who you were on the Org, but please try and give a little empathy.

[hobofat]

The aircraft flies nicely, the manuals and complexity of the systems add a new level of realism into flying the plane.

Can you go into some more detail about how this plane takes realism to a "new" level versus other planes in your stable of payware aircraft? For example, in comparison to the JRollon's CRJ-200 or Peter Hager's airbus series.

I was looking at this plane because I happen to like the ERJ-140, and do like supporting new developers but would like to hear some concrete feedback beyond simple superlatives.

[Jordan P.]

You guys you talk all this crap about planes but... It isn't nice they spent lots of time with this and it is brand new how bout sending them a pm and telling them not making a post so you can humiliate them it just isn't right! Have a heart if you spent a long time on a jet(and it has amazing flight dynamics) how would you like someone to make a post on a forum humiliating you? Plus you say exteriors are bad well that's because Yey work more on the cockpit and the flight dynamics besides it is all you see as a real pilot is the cockpit and all you feel is the flight dynamics!

Just my opinion...

[Michael_Chang]

Now i know people tend to argue in favor of flight dynamics in x-plane, but my view now, is that since we've perfected the art of flight models, then why can't we add that same level of perfection to the rest of the plane? The exterior is just as important as the interior in my view, and if I should buy something, it should definitely feature an exterior as super-accurate as the interior. it's great that they've ventured into this area of x-plane (payware) but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't immediately start looking for improvement. I don't intend to humiliate, and it is not humiliation to point out what they need to improve on. when the plane gets an update to improve these features, THEN i'll congratulate, and provide a new list of possible improvements.

In response to Hobofat, i meant it as a comparison to their previous release, the 748

[Jordan P.]

Well I talked to stkeller and he felt like you were attack him! So in the future if you are gOing to make a post like this a least try to emphasize the good points a bit more to and make it a bit less harsh!

[Michael_Chang]

Stekeller's got others to do that for him, the rest of the community will praise, i'll offer criticism I don't usually offer up compliments and praise until a project is my standards, which is why i'm still pushing myself hard to get my own aircrafts up there. I do wish them luck in the payware world, but in general, i still hope that they fix the issues that i have pointed out.

sorry Stekeller, it's not an attack on you or your group, i swear.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Michael_Chang

[Ricardo Bolognini]

you are wrong ! guy ! you don't know about planes ! you only knows make copy of objects from otthers planes ! right one or wrong ones !

your panels is hudge ! doesnot works ! you don't know whats is an airfoil file and can't judge a planes like that the envolves some respected guys !

To be honest only a time i loose with you was that ! to publish if you do not block it whats is the wrong in the fuselage design and a"maybe right" official Aircraft draw !

May you could open the plane "if you have one" or may you can find a torrent over the russian places that you know the sites.

Open it in your XP and learn some about planes ! may you will not understand becouse you probaly could not understand the level off the project !

But you shoul try it then may you could make your own and not copy from others !

Yes it hat it problems and it will be fixed in furter Updates !

But i'm sure are not your obsevations ! becouse that was wrong !

Sorry guy ! but you need expend your time looking what the OLD Timers contructors have made ! like i did and never critcise some that you cannot make betther !

Usualy constructors doesnot critcise otthers contructors becouse they knows the dificults and you guy first needs respect this ones !

So in this way "you will never be a XP constructor respected" you will be alone in your crazy world.

The Cockpit SIZE,PLACE and SHAPE are exact !

Edited September 26, 2012 by Ricardo Bolognini

[Kaphias]

...I think, as a developer, when you release a payware product, you have to be prepared for stuff like this. If someone bought your product, in my opinion they have every right to go and complain all they want. By no means are they obligated to post a positive comment, even if there are many great things about the plane. Sucks but that's the way the way it works, and it's not just limited to the X-Plane community.

[Ricardo Bolognini]

...I think, as a developer, when you release a payware product, you have to be prepared for stuff like this. If someone bought your product, in my opinion they have every right to go and complain all they want. By no means are they obligated to post a positive comment, even if there are many great things about the plane. Sucks but that's the way the way it works, and it's not just limited to the X-Plane community.

The problem is not the critcism or the comment !

The problem is how it is made whith no any respect for anyone !

i received a lot of comments and agreed with many !

I'm loosing my time listem a person cannot really give us some positive kinds, advices or critcisms !

[Peter T.]

the background image-doesn't fit well as well, the back section is too thin compared to the background image. the engines are a little behind, and the nose contour is also a little too thin.....

i also heard that those three view diagrams arent as accurate

i might be wrong

[Ricardo Bolognini]

the background image-doesn't fit well as well, the back section is too thin compared to the background image. the engines are a little behind, and the nose contour is also a little too thin.....

i also heard that those three view diagrams arent as accurate

i might be wrong

You are not wrong ! the external model and internal have it diferences ! but isnot what was pointed by Mr. CRTL+C

Then only you know becouse i'm showing ! SSG has nothing to be hiden ! all guys are very PROUD for the B748 -i -F and the SSG E-170.

as we knows it problem and discrepances is most probaly it will be fixed in furter updates !

The landing gear are too short too ! but take the plane and make a trip !

[Redfisher]

I suspect that in the end and as a developer himself, Mr. Chang is writing checks his mouth can't cash.

[Peter T.]

from what i heard from him, his intentions were to point out details of the model errors, he don't mean no harm, nor any insult to the developers....i agrees that Michael's way of talking is a little harsh, but if he can't change the most we can do is get used to it?

Michael, you are grounded,go to your bedroom NOW xD

[Kaphias]

The problem is not the critcism or the comment !

The problem is how it is made whith no any respect for anyone !

i received a lot of comments and agreed with many !

I'm loosing my time listem a person cannot really give us some positive kinds, advices or critcisms !

I have no clue where you get the idea that it's made with no respect. Michael took the time to be very descriptive and add photos to his review... I know that if I was still developing aircraft, I'd be very thankful to someone who took the time to review the faults with my aircraft and give enough detail to allow me to easily fix them.

you are wrong ! guy ! you don't know about planes ! you only knows make copy of objects from otthers planes ! right one or wrong ones !

your panels is hudge ! doesnot works ! you don't know whats is an airfoil file and can't judge a planes like that the envolves some respected guys !

To be honest only a time i loose with you was that ! to publish if you do not block it whats is the wrong in the fuselage design and a"maybe right" official Aircraft draw !

May you could open the plane "if you have one" or may you can find a torrent over the russian places that you know the sites.

Open it in your XP and learn some about planes ! may you will not understand becouse you probaly could not understand the level off the project !

But you shoul try it then may you could make your own and not copy from others !

Yes it hat it problems and it will be fixed in furter Updates !

But i'm sure are not your obsevations ! becouse that was wrong !

Sorry guy ! but you need expend your time looking what the OLD Timers contructors have made ! like i did and never critcise some that you cannot make betther !

Usualy constructors doesnot critcise otthers contructors becouse they knows the dificults and you guy first needs respect this ones !

So in this way "you will never be a XP constructor respected" you will be alone in your crazy world.

I'd say this is a pretty good example of a comment made without respect. Don't know why you felt like you had to let loose the torrent of personal attacks; I didn't see anything like that in Michael's post.

I suspect that in the end and as a developer himself, Mr. Chang is writing checks his mouth can't cash.

I think this will generally be a case where we'll have to "agree to disagree", but I am always open to feedback from... less-skilled people in my field. Many times I've received great advice from other people who are not artists or architecture students. I appreciate the fresh eye, as I know that in those fields, my work is not only viewed by my peers, but the general public. I'd like to think that X-Plane is similar- I know my audience isn't only those better than me; I'm designing for the whole community. So of douse I'd love to hear their ideas on my product.

[Ricardo Bolognini]

Interesting is Mr. CTRL+C to say what he whants does not need a lawer but to proove it "points" and defence he needs !

bye ! and buy the plane to support the team !

[Michael_Chang]

Interesting is Mr. CTRL+C to say what he whants does not need a lawer but to proove it "points" and defence he needs !

bye ! and buy the plane to support the team !

I don't buy planes from people who decide to launch attacks on critics.

Firstly, there is NO reason you can't listen to another person's criticism. if you built the plane using just drawings, no wonder it looks so off in certain areas. Trust me, While developing the Fokker 100, i found that using photos taken by myself work a lot better to produce results rather than using drawings. Your flight model may be fantastic, whoop-dee-doo but if you're not paying attention to the exterior as well, that plane won't get any better.

I made this post hoping that SSG would be professional, and take this criticism to heart and make their plane better, but it clearly seems that all they want to hear is an endless river of compliments. Ricardo, do not let personal issues with a critic faze the advice given. Ricardo, learn to be a professional and take a little criticism, if you make a payware aircraft you can't expect everything to be sunshine and lollipops. and don't play the "you don't know anything" card, because I assure you that i do know a thing or two about exterior modelling and flight model development. and for the record, I do know how to create airfoils.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Michael_Chang

[clavel9]

My worry about all of this is that it's developing into a 3D modellers' death match. With the exception of Chip and flighttime56's blog (http://xsimreviews.com), there's very little in the way of in-depth analysis of performance and handling going on. I'm all for the very high standard of 3D modelling that we've been getting lately - and it's improving all the time - but I'd actually be more concerned if I spent good money on an ACF only to find that it bore no resemblance to the real aircraft, except visually. The ability to produce very detailed objects for X-Plane is a very recent development; if a very welcome one.

[Michael_Chang]

My worry about all of this is that it's developing into a 3D modellers' death match. With the exception of Chip and flighttime56's blog (http://xsimreviews.com), there's very little in the way of in-depth analysis of performance and handling going on. I'm all for the very high standard of 3D modelling that we've been getting lately - and it's improving all the time - but I'd actually be more concerned if I spent good money on an ACF only to find that it bore no resemblance to the real aircraft, except visually. The ability to produce very detailed objects for X-Plane is a very recent development; if a very welcome one.

I agree that systems are important, but the standards for 3d modelling are equivalent to FS2000 most of the time. the only difference is that we use a million more polygons. I'm all for great systems. but on a payware plane, great systems should be coupled with an accurate exterior. When i look at this plane i see an ERJ-170 like jet, not the ERJ 170. x-plane has the capability and the know-how to create amazing aircrafts, such as the SSJ, and i wish more people would create that the first time around, instead of releaseing a half-baked parody of a plane and then fixing it after the release.

[JohnMAXX]

"NOW most of you know me as a person of particular cut-throatiness, and I'll admit, I'm a mean person > "

Mikey,

Stop being a coward and this whole "I am being contrstructive" act. Your recent efforts show a lot of promise but to date nothing has been produced for us to look over. Other then a few FSX conversions.....

I myself can see a few issues with the AC, especially how the nose and widows meet. But starting off a sentence with "NOW most of you know me as a person of particular cut-throatiness, and I'll admit, I'm a mean person"...especially knowing there is a language barrier is nothing short of antagonistic. But there is nothing here with this aircraft that doesnt justify the price. You did the same thing with the T7 when it was released. It is almost like you have developer penis envy or something.

Fact is the way you talk of others work is distrubing to me, it shows me you dont have a leg to stand on....You are getting noticed by places like XSimReviews but if you continue acting like a spoiled brat your product will most likely be ignored....

Dude I thought you were starting to grow up a bit, my bad I was wrong....

Still using a pirated copy of XP10 for development? Remember? Something you admited on the XPlane Aviators Facebook page? You know the picture of the airport with water everywhere? That, well, gives you no legs....as a matter of fact no arms either.....If you were hung on a wall id call you ART....

Thing is Mikey, me and Im sure a few other people will not support someone who is an antagonist, pirate and well a complete asshole at times who still hasnt produced anything for the public to look at....

My advice to you initially was to let your work do the talking. A few WIP images is nothing dude....

[ksgy]

@topic starter: Are those little differences really matter?

There are LOT of little differences in EVERY x-plane plane. Even in payware.

Why? Because it's almost impossible to develop a plane if you don't have the right sources. And in right sources I mean really high quality blueprints and/or CAD-like drawings.

Like my Let L-410. It's built from very poor quality blueprints, mostly based on pictures. Hundreds of hours comparing to pictures from different angles. It's really not as real as I'd like to see, but there is a point where you have to stop and say: "ok, from this, it's not worth the hours I put in, so I move on".

I think this plane worth every cent and you have to live with these little differences

(Sorry for poor english )

[Carlos Garcia]

Roman's History at X-plane

http://thetruthabout...n.blogspot.com/

For all the noise Roman Zolanski constantly likes to generate about being banned from x-plane.org for trivial matters such as sending a PM or posting an innocent comment, I present you the chronological truth and reason(s) for his permanent ban:

07/11/2011: ZRoman member account created

07/12/2011: Copyright infringement. Uploading copyright materials without permission or credit

07/13/2011: Copyright infringement. Reuploading copyright materials without permission or credit

08/15/2011: Copyright infringement. Uploading copyright materials without permission or credit

10/14/2011: Forum behaviour warning

10/17/2011: Forum behaviour warning

11/01/2011: Forum behaviour warning

11/11/2011: Forum behaviour warning

11/14/2011: Forum behaviour warning

12/18/2011: Copyright infringement. Uploading payware resources without permission or credit.

12/18/2011: Copyright infringement. Insisting payware resources (above) to be 100% his own - even after documented proof to the contrary emerged.

12/18/2011: ZRoman account banned (1st)

12/272011: ZRoman account granted amnesty and re-instated to x-plane.org. Later re-banned again (2nd)

05/01/2012: ZRoman2.0 account created in order to skirt ban.

05/01/2012: Copyright infringement. Uploading copyright materials without permission or credit.

06/01/2012: ZRoman & ZRoman2.0 accounts permanently banned & blocked from x-plane.org

06/01/2012: ZRomanReloaded account created in order to skirt ban.

06/01/2012: ZRomanReloaded account banned & blocked.

19/02/2012: justintime member account created in order to skirt ban.

19/02/2012: justintime member account posts offsite links to aircraft that are in violation of Copyright

19/02/2012: justintime member account banned

22/02/2012: MasonRy member account created in order to skirt ban.

24/02/2012: MasonRy member account banned.

02/03/2012: Roman posts a death-threat towards x-plane.org moderator six7 in the form of a pathetic poem on his x-plane blog.

02/03/2012: Roman removes death threat from his blog claiming his "computer was hacked": http://zolanskisden....-attention.html

14/03/2012: changitup member account created in order to skirt ban.

28/03/2012: changitup member account banned.

Sorry Roman, your complaints about unfairness towards you simply don't hold water. Try again.

There's also strong suspicion by X-Plane moderation staff that the member account "plane700" is also Roman Zolanski:

• The plane700 member account was also banned for exactly the same habitual and deliberate copyright infringement (5 copyright infringement warnings in 6 months for the same type of resources).

• Timeline goes from December 2010 to ban in late June of 2011 (less than 2 weeks before ZRoman account created)

• Multiple user accounts created, sharing the same email provider

• Common IP addresses between ZRoman & Plane700

• The Plane700 account was also caught participating in X-Plane software piracy at the now defunct X-Plane section of tehparadox.com forums.

You know what's funny Roman?

http://thetruthabout...unny-roman.html

That you actually feel as if you're competition for payware developers like Ramzzes, Gary Hunter, Michael Wilson and the like. It's laughable.

You develop nothing.

Combining other people's hard work and attempting to take some form of credit exposes your true desire as an attention-seeker and nothing more

Carlos Garcia Acevedo...

Edited September 26, 2012 by Carlos Garcia

[Ricardo Bolognini]

@topic starter: Are those little differences really matter?

There are LOT of little differences in EVERY x-plane plane. Even in payware.

Why? Because it's almost impossible to develop a plane if you don't have the right sources. And in right sources I mean really high quality blueprints and/or CAD-like drawings.

Like my Let L-410. It's built from very poor quality blueprints, mostly based on pictures. Hundreds of hours comparing to pictures from different angles. It's really not as real as I'd like to see, but there is a point where you have to stop and say: "ok, from this, it's not worth the hours I put in, so I move on".

I think this plane worth every cent and you have to live with these little differences

(Sorry for poor english )

You Know !why never fits ? i really would like to know if after more then a year developing and a lot of budys after others ! becouse Fotos doesnot fits in Blue prints !

why ? Optical displacement from the lens ! depends the lens ,zoom,and it Exposition size ! Diafragma " i don't know in english"

So if you uses a Blue Print "Right ones" when i see the image from the planes it just diferent! and the reference for the guys is the pictures ! so awais will be wrong !

But the budy still have it diferences ! probaly some will be fixed son !

thanks !

Edited September 26, 2012 by Ricardo Bolognini

[Kaphias]

You Know !why never fits ? i really would like to know if after more then a year developing and a lot of budys after others ! becouse Fotos doesnot fits in Blue prints !

why ? Optical displacement from the lens ! depends the lens ,zoom,and it Exposition size ! Diafragma " i don't know in english"

So if you uses a Blue Print "Right ones" when i see the image from the planes it just diferent! and the reference for the guys is the pictures ! so awais will be wrong !

thanks !

Which I why I highly recommend that any developer, whether they be modeling or painting, spend some time looking over the actual plane, in person. That was always a huge help when I was choosing reference images and adjusting colors for my Alaska Airlines paints.

As a photographer I should also note that you can get rid of a lot of distortion by shooting from far away and zooming in... of course not all photos are taken like this so it's certainly something you have to watch for if you're modeling from reference images.