Why , why, something I do not dig

[Leen de Jager]

Hi folks,

After being active in FLYII , MSFS 9 and 10 , I came addicted ( mildly expressed) and for a year or so I am active in painting for X-Plane.

LES released a very good DC3/C47 and I aimed my brushes on it last moths.

Strange enough the amount of "paints" offered for the model is very disappointing.

Being (better said having been) "one from the other camp" I simply cannot understand that.

Did Goran publish a model hardly anyone is interested in?

Is the model so/to complicated to be "painted".

Are there so few people capable of painting in the X-Plane community ?

Guys ( girls ) I cannot beleve that !!

Magnificent airplanes for X-Plane , great choice available.

Repaints, liveries,cockpits......................please folks, if you know how to use the brushes , grab them.

Making a livery............... who wishes for more?

There is also room for repaints to be published at AVSIM for thos who...............

Edited May 16, 2012 by Leen de Jager

[larjeet]

I agree with you Leen I never did get into repaints for FSX FS9 but Xplane is a very simple process . I dont have any high end paint programs I just use the Gimp and Paint dot Net . It would also be great if Cameron could create a space on the Xpilot server for uploading repaints and such for Xaviation products . I don't have the DC3 but I have been having fun with repainting the Falco.

Larry

Edited May 16, 2012 by larjeet

[steven winslow]

Beautiful work, Leen! When someone as talented as you takes on a project like the DC-3, I think we all sit back and admire what you are doing. Keep up the good work!

[Leen de Jager]

I agree with you Leen I never did get into repaints for FSX FS9 but Xplane is a very simple process .

Larry

Painting for MSFS is not more complicated than painting for X-Plane , I can assure you.

For me, painting for X-Plane is at least as complicated ( or simple if you like ).

Leen

[clavel9]

As it's a payware aircraft, clearly not everyone who does repaints may be able to afford buying the aircraft in the first place. I've no doubt that the DC-3 will do very well, but that's not to say that even a significant minority of buyers will be interested in - or capable of - creating repaints. Over time I'm sure there will be more contributions, but you only have to look at the download manager on the ORG to see how few repaints, relatively speaking, are done for payware aircraft.

[Leen de Jager]

You might have a point there BUT.

How many repaints are available for the default Stinson ?

How many repaints are available for the default Cessna?

The real problem is ( in my humble opinion ) in X-Plane-land there are just so few painters.

I can assure you repaints are vital for a sim , it keeps the sim alive and interesting.

In MSFS ( you know... that other sim) there is (even) a commercial painting-studio involved selling just repaints.

I can assure you its profitable (being one( not painting ) of that team).

[steven winslow]

I can assure you repaints are vital for a sim , it keeps the sim alive and interesting.

In MSFS ( you know... that other sim) there is (even) a commercial painting-studio involved selling just repaints.

I can assure you its profitable (being one( not painting ) of that team).

Maybe THAT'S the problem. Most add-ons for X-Plane are free and a lot of developers build stuff for free and most X-Planers want stuff for free. I know that I put in at least 6 hours in every paint I do, what with the initial painting, testing, then tweaking, then testing and cleaning up, then tweaking and testing some more then finally uploading it. I would surely love to be compensated for the work I do on X-Plane aircraft, but I don't see the trend heading that way. Too many people are accustomed to freebie stuff. Heck, payware aircraft for X-Plane is still a relatively new concept.

Edited May 17, 2012 by steven winslow

[Mike Hotel]

I have been toying a couple of weeks to open a post on painting. OK, here is my point of view (rant):

Currently I am painting Dan Klaue's ERJ for my VA and am finding the process discouraging. PlaneMaker is a big performance hog and sucks up about 30 % of my CPU when idle. In order to load the livery I just changed, I have to open another livery and then open the one I would like to look at. Not to mention making the lines connect at areas where the wire frame in the paint kit (not there) would show an unexpected 45 or 90 degrees bend or offset. Am in the 14th hour of painting. Ridiculous, if you ask me. Most time is lost saving to 24bit .pngs and loading/loading the livery.

Why do some have to be so hard to paint? Some? The most interesting from my point of view.

Which? The SSJ with its three part fuselage. Or aligning the lines on the vertical stabilizer for Javiers CRJ200 and 747.

There are some easy to paint aircraft around (the payware Heinz 787, the freeware Airbus A332) with loads of liveries around.

Sigh. Thats why there are probably so few painters in general...

Could aircraft designers make painting liveries easier?

Regarding the DC3, I suspect that it is due to its current market share, since it is relatively new. Plus that the priority of the most pilots is in current jet-crafts. A retro prop like the DC3 requires a distinct love for an era of aviation, too. Since a current design would not fit, research is required.

[Nicola_M]

I can only say how it is for me. Like Mike Hotel, I cannot have Planemaker and xplane open at the same time.

I work with Planemaker open and Photoshop. Each change I make I get Planemaker to load the default paint, and then load the paint I'm working on to see the current change. It's a tedious thing, but we're only talking seconds between the default paint and the one I'm working on.

Some aircraft are hard to paint, that's the way they are. It's probably also the main reason I mostly work on the one aircraft rather than doing liveries for many. Maybe that's how others work too. No doubt there are aircraft builders who make their paintkits a nightmare to work on, but that will also account for no one putting out liveries for it.

I plan to buy the DC-3 one day, but for the foreseeable month or two I don't have the finances for it. This is probably another reason why not many people have made liveries for it yet; in this time of economic trouble we have to prioritise what we want for now, and what we want for 3 months down the line.

We may have few painters in general, but xplane is blessed with a huge amount of talented people building aircraft and scenery, so it's a good mix of talent all round.

I don't think money really comes into painting; while it would be nice to follow the MSFS example and be paid for our work, the pleasure is in creating something for others. And the "free" ethos has been with xplane from the start.

I am sure in the fullness of time there will be more liveries for the DC-3.

[abrenna]

I'd certainly pay for a quality livery of the Norwegian Dakota for the DC3, and I might be willing to pay for other liveries as well.

The payware planes in X-Plane are great, and I rarerly fly any of the freebies. Keep the quality planes coming, and I'll continue buying.

[steven winslow]

Why in the world do you have Plane-Maker open? I've never opened Plane-Maker when painting any of the liveries I've done. The only time I use Plane-Maker is to set my livery to be the default livery. I use Photoshop exclusively with all the liveries I have painted. I know there are things I need to or should do in something like Graphic Converter, but Photoshop has served me well so far. Maybe it's just my photographic background or my lack of understanding of the tools most of the developers are using, but I haven't seemed to have any issues with just using Photoshop.

Wait! I've had an epiphany while typing this response! I'm beginning to understand how it might be faster to test a livery in Plane-Maker rather than firing up X-Plane every time to test. What I've been doing is opening X-Plane and taking a quick test flight and doing screenshots of the areas I need to work on. With the insight you've given me above, I'll try the Plane-Maker work flow next livery I work on and see if it cuts my test time down.

In the meantime, how much would anyone be willing to pay for quality liveries for payware? How do the plane developers feel about painters charging for liveries for their creations? I'm sure there's many more questions to be asked.

[Simmo W]

that's a lovely job Leen!

Obviously payware, and above average priced payware, restricts the no. of paints. But it's also the specialised nature of the skill. Not everyone wants to paint a plane, let alone do it at the levels of perfection you guys do it at. Eg I've dabbled in scenery, love texturing it because it's my creation, and often the object construction has been determined with a specific texture approach. But I doubt I'd ever do a livery, all those curves scare me! Might do one for humorous purposes though, but it'd need to be a must-do.

[Nicola_M]

Why in the world do you have Plane-Maker open?

So I can check my work as I do it. You have to do this if you are copying a known design, so you can line up logos, type, lines etc.

I have Planemaker open and running all the time. To check the work I've done in Photoshop I save it as the required external paint job png and go into Planemaker and select default livery (to clear the last) and then select the livery I'm working on.

This way you use Planemaker to check your work's progress as you do it.

You don't fire up xplane or Planemaker each time - you have planemaker running all the time you work.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Nicola_M

[steven winslow]

Yep, Nicola, lots of checking and tweaking go into painting known designs, as you put it. I actually do my work on my good old PPC G5 Mac 1.8ghz Dual Processor. It's the computer I've used for the past 8 to 10 years for my studio Photoshop work. In it's day it was a great machine. I know it has become a dinosaur and it slows my work immensely. (My wife works on Power Mac Dual Quad Core 2.something ghz with 14 gb RAM and smokes through Photoshop work...hence, she does most of the studio post-production work) Sometime this year I'll be getting a new MacBook Pro and I'll be able to do Photoshop and X-Plane or Plane-Maker on the same computer, but for now, I paint on my old PPC Mac, then use a jump drive or an external hard drive to put the file onto my Mac Mini that I am currently flying with. I had never thought of using Plane-Maker to check my liveries. I've always fired up X-Plane and done quick little test flights and done external screenshots of the areas I need to work on. Makes a whole hell of a lot more sense to use Plane-Maker, with it's viewing controls you can really check what's going on with your work. Thank you for your post teaching me the error of my ways! Thanks tons!!!

[Nicola_M]

No problem. You can use xplane running to check your work (or keep loading it) but for my laptop I find xplane running alongside Photoshop usually has the cooling fans going nuts so using Planemaker to check my work is a little easier on the laptop.

Dell XPS 2.1Ghz dual core, 4GB ram, 256mg Nvidia 7900GS.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Nicola_M

[clavel9]

It's a pity you can't reload textures on objects in PlaneMaker without switching back and forth between liveries. One of the good things about the "old days" was that you just hit "t" to reload the textures.

[Leen de Jager]

I use X-Plane and Planemaker simultaniously , my computer has no problems with that.

I can even fly FSX the same time.

About payware-paints.........I am sure they will be common goods in X-Plane-land in a year (or so).

Personally I only make free-ware paints , just because I just want to paint liveries I am interested in.

As I am involved in "repaints on a commercial basis" ( not as actual painter ! ) I know whats needed to make a quality that sells.

This means I am spending many hours on a paint , because I want it to have "commercial quality" especially for this one. (McPhat-freeware)

Till now this livery took me about 25 hours and when its ready probably twice as much.

This way a "repaint" almost becomes a "remake".

Need to be a bit crazy for doing this..........

This is the same bird as shown above , as you can see changed on many points.

Re-designed walk-strips on wings , placed on the right positions..

Wing-joints made visible.

No need to say this needs to be implemented in the normal files and speculars too.

This paint is not really 100% depicting the original aircraft due to the limitations of the texture-mapping of the model.

Nevertheless it gives an acceptable impression , I hope.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Leen de Jager

[WombatBoy]

Oh my, Leen...that looks absolutely fantastic! Easily one of the best repaints I've ever seen.

[Spacedust]

It's a pity you can't reload textures on objects in PlaneMaker without switching back and forth between liveries. One of the good things about the "old days" was that you just hit "t" to reload the textures.

Yes you can, from the pull-down menu on the right.

[guym-p]

You can use xplane running to check your work (or keep loading it) but for my laptop I find xplane running alongside Photoshop usually has the cooling fans going nuts so using Planemaker to check my work is a little easier on the laptop.

Plane Maker uses 22% CPU even when another app. has the focus. It doesn't matter on multi-core systems, but if you are really looking for minimal footprint, I make a special AC3D file for the whole aircraft (external projections) which can sit on the desktop using 1% CPU. AC3D seems to detect a change in the PNG and it refreshes the textures automatically.

[Leen de Jager]

Never heard of this.

Please tell me (us ) whats all about.

I will be great for me and others to have explaned how that works and what that program does , and where to get and how to install it.

This way a forum like this gets an enormous value.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Leen de Jager

[Nicola_M]

Plane Maker uses 22% CPU even when another app. has the focus. It doesn't matter on multi-core systems, but if you are really looking for minimal footprint, I make a special AC3D file for the whole aircraft (external projections) which can sit on the desktop using 1% CPU. AC3D seems to detect a change in the PNG and it refreshes the textures automatically.

I'm fine with my setup using Photoshop, with Planemaker (running alongside) to check the results as I go along. The point I meant was xplane is harder on my system, so no way could I use Photoshop, with x-plane to check the results, as Steven Winslow was.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Nicola_M

[steven winslow]

Keep in mind that I've always done the painting on one Mac and transferred the files to test them on another Mac. I can't even run X-Plane 9 on my PPC G5 Mac! Quite a time waster! But now that Nicola has opened my understanding, I'll be checking my files in Plane-Maker, rather than X-Plane. I think I might even be able to do it all on one Mac. What I really should do is start doing my painting and checking on my MacBook Pro using Photoshop and Plane-Maker to check the files. Should be able to run them both with no problem.

In my own defense, one of the reasons I used X-Plane to check the paints is that I just love to fly and see what the paint looks like in the air.

[Nicola_M]

The only time I go near x-plane is to check the livery once it's finished, to check for anything missed, and to grab the screenshot to go with the livery. Other than that, x-plane is redundant to the livery process for me.

[guym-p]

I'm fine with my setup using Photoshop, with Planemaker (running alongside) to check the results as I go along. The point I meant was xplane is harder on my system, so no way could I use Photoshop, with x-plane to check the results, as Steven Winslow was.

Understood; but even Plane Maker is quite greedy.

Never heard of this.

Please tell me (us ) whats all about.

Do you mean AC3D? It's a nice 3D App for both Windows and Mac OS. As always, choice of software is a personal thing. I find I can create geometry faster in Blender, and the ability to see all objects on a UV map at the same time is important to me. It also has a very useful plug-in, written by Ben Supnik, for animations and manipulators in X-Plane. I like Blender, too, and use it for baking textures and metallic finishes, but I build stuff in AC3D.