Problems moving around, getting into aircraft using VR

[Rlondon]

I wrote this to X Aviation and was told to come to this forum. I am having multiple problems using the Challenger 650 in VR.

Now, it just crashes Xplane 12.

Good morning.

I am having several problems with your aircraft in VR.

1: When I try to board the stairs in VR, I end up going through the
aircraft to the other side.
How do I go up the stairs? Is there a better way to move around other than
using W, A, D, S, X? I am using a Pimax 8kx. I also cannot move my head
(when in VR with my Pimax on) when in the sim. I still have to rely on the
keyboard. How do I change this as to moving my head in a natural state
when in VR outside the aircraft??

I see videos of others moving freely. How do they do it so quickly??
Climbing stairs, moving around the inside of the aircraft, etc..??

2: Documentation??? It has been pretty much over a year since I have used
this aircraft. Seems there has been ample time for some kind of
manual/documentation, something other than videos made by others which do
not address my problems.

I have read online a lot of complaints regarding no documentation as to how
to move around, settings info, aircraft info and what not. There is
nothing on your website regarding any of this... There are high regards
pertaining to your models but people are pissed there is NO documentation,
manuals, how to do X, Y, Z...nothing....

I am sure I will have more questions...
Thanks for any help in these matters.
Rlondon

[Rlondon]

Finally got  some help. Thanks!

Edited May 20, 2023 by Rlondon

[skiselkov]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:04 PM, Rlondon said:

Now, it just crashes Xplane 12.

Hi Rlondon. Sad to hear it's giving you issues. We'll need the Log.txt file from your X-Plane installation folder when the airplane crashes, otherwise we can't really tell what's going wrong.

On 5/17/2023 at 10:04 PM, Rlondon said:

1: When I try to board the stairs in VR, I end up going through the
aircraft to the other side.
How do I go up the stairs? Is there a better way to move around other than
using W, A, D, S, X? I am using a Pimax 8kx. I also cannot move my head
(when in VR with my Pimax on) when in the sim. I still have to rely on the
keyboard. How do I change this as to moving my head in a natural state
when in VR outside the aircraft??

The walkaround system is fundamentally incompatible with direct VR movement. VR is a completely isolated movement & view control mode that we do not get to control - that's all in X-Plane's hands. About the maximum we can do is provide a few pre-defined positions to which you can "teleport" using a VR controller. There is no facility to define walkable surfaces or walls.

As a temporary workaround, the best solution I can offer is to not use VR while moving around the aircraft, then switch to VR when you sit down in the pilot's seat. I will also prepare a vrconfig file for you that will have a few pre-defined teleport locations. Those might help out a little, but it will never feel as fluid as using keyboard & mouse with a conventional display.

On 5/17/2023 at 10:04 PM, Rlondon said:

2: Documentation??? It has been pretty much over a year since I have used
this aircraft. Seems there has been ample time for some kind of
manual/documentation, something other than videos made by others which do
not address my problems.

You will need to be a bit more specific as to what would constitute manuals/documentation to your satisfaction. We supply:

• An 11-page full-size read & do checklist, and a 4-page compact printable checklist
• 34-page expanded normal operating procedures document, with explanations and screenshots on what each step is for
• 16-page FMS primer to get people started on using the FMS for A-to-B flights
• 30-page aircraft operations reference, including basic operational information, walkaround process, standard flight profiles, operations in icing, steep approaches with special supplements to specific airports and ETOPS guidance
• 13-page document  on the FLEX/MTO feature
• 15-page manual on how to set up and operate the shared cockpit feature
• 6-page sample training scenarios + 10 pages of QRH pages pertaining to the shipped training scenarios

In all, these total well over 100 pages of documentation. We are always looking for suggestions on improvements, so if you have areas where we should focus, we'd love hear about them. Please note that we cannot provide full AFM, FCOM and QRH docs, as those are proprietary resources which we do not own the copyrights to. However, much of the information in those documents can be found with a bit of googling. Might I suggest search terms such as "smart cockpit challenger 605."

Hope this helps.

[Rlondon]

Thanks for responding to my questions.

I am not sure how to respond back to you.  I just signed up for this forum because I was pulling my hair out trying to get this thing working... I still am pulling my hair out.

I did not know that all the material you mentioned in your reponse to my queries.  I still have all of my emails from someone named "Cameron" from over a year ago and not once did he mention anything regarding all of the material or even how to find it so I have not messed with these aircraft since.  ANY help figuring out why this is not working would be great..and most appreciated.

• An 11-page full-size read & do checklist, and a 4-page compact printable checklist
• 34-page expanded normal operating procedures document, with explanations and screenshots on what each step is for
• 16-page FMS primer to get people started on using the FMS for A-to-B flights
• 30-page aircraft operations reference, including basic operational information, walkaround process, standard flight profiles, operations in icing, steep approaches with special supplements to specific airports and ETOPS guidance
• 13-page document  on the FLEX/MTO feature
• 15-page manual on how to set up and operate the shared cockpit feature
• 6-page sample training scenarios + 10 pages of QRH pages pertaining to the shipped training scenarios

So where do I find these?  This would be most helpful.

I just spend over 5 hrs installing a "fresh" and "clean' install of Xplane 11  (I want to use Xplane 12 but it keeps crashing) with nothing installed except for the CL650 and TBM 900.  I tried to use my VR (with nothing else added mind you) and it still will not work in VR.  You stated I should sit in the cockpit and then do VR. This does not work.  It freezes xplane and takes me back to the hanger where it is hung up against the hanger door for some reason... Xplane 11 is updated.  When I am not in VR, it works fine.  My system has a i9-10900k Intel processor, maxed out RAM and an RTX 3090 graphics card...

Log from Xplane 12.txt Log from another copy of Xplane 11 that crashes.txt

[Cameron]

1 minute ago, Rlondon said:

I did not know that all the material you mentioned in your reponse to my queries.  I still have all of my emails from someone named "Cameron" from over a year ago and not once did he mention anything regarding all of the material or even how to find it so I have not messed with these aircraft since.

Really? Come on, man. History says otherwise...that's a disappointing accusation, so I'll remind you of our correspondence from over a year ago.

[skiselkov]

11 minutes ago, Rlondon said:

So where do I find these?  This would be most helpful.

In addition to the link Cam sent you, these documents are also provided inside of the aircraft in a folder called "Documentation" - this is the standard location where most 3rd party aircraft vendors supply documentation. I'd recommend using the online link though, as that often gets updated more rapidly (shipped documentation is only updated when a new release is made).

17 minutes ago, Rlondon said:

I want to use Xplane 12 but it keeps crashing

I had a look at the log file you sent and it doesn't appear to show a crash, but rather, an orderly shutdown:

Quote

0:00:17.808 I/SIM: Exiting the sim without confirmation
0:00:17.822 D/STM: Transitioning from state state_QuickFlightWizard to state_ShuttingDown

That is X-Plane logging that a shutdown of the sim has been commanded by the user. This is then followed by a number of deinit messages and plugins exiting, and finally at the end:

Quote

----- X-Plane has shut down -----

A crash would look more like this:

Quote

--=={This application has crashed!}==--
--=={UUID: 3f741f90-9cce-4935-a259-cc1f21e27d3a}==--

We need a log from when the sim crashes (that means closes without you commanding it to), rather than just loading into the main menu and then exiting again.

Looking at your XP11 log, it ends in:

Quote

Vulkan Layers       : VK_LAYER_NV_optimus (1), VK_LAYER_reshade (1), VK_LAYER_RTSS (1), VK_LAYER_OW_OVERLAY (1), VK_LAYER_OW_OBS_HOOK (1), VK_LAYER_VALVE_steam_overlay (1), VK_LAYER_VALVE_steam_fossilize (1), VK_LAYER_OBS_HOOK (1)
Disabled ReShade    : This layer is known to cause issues such as crashes with X-Plane. Use --allow_reshade to bypass, you have been warned!

Are you using Reshade by any chance? Even reusing the same folder for an update/reinstall might still leave bits of Reshade behind and cause issues. I would recommend trying it without reshade first. Moreover, this log doesn't appear to show attempting to load the CL650 at all. Instead:

Quote

0:00:52.826 I/FCG: Starting new flight in Aircraft/Extra Aircraft/AeroSphere Aerostar G1000/PiperAerostar.acf at Runway 13

That appears to be somebody else's 3rd party aircraft (at least, I'm not aware of XP11 ever shipping a Piper Aerostar).

[Rlondon]

Last year, I wasted so much time on these two modules I stopped trying to use them.  Since my grandkid wants to be a pilot like me , I am trying to set this up for him to use.  Now, in the past 3 days, I have wasted no less than 25 hrs on this problem so far. I finished last night at almost 10 pm after starting at 7am in the morn.  I am one who does not like to waste time,  but this is what is happening. Wasting time.  

I reformatted my 1tb drive last night. I installed ONLY the Challenger and TBM. No plugins, nothing. The Challenger kept crashing when attempting to go into VR. The TBM actually worked this time in VR.  Prior, I had 3 Xplanes on the same TB but with different names.  So I took this route.  There were no skips, crashes or any problems visually, starting or moving around with the TBM.  I am not sure of this but it seemed like it did not "update". It may have but I don't recall. With the CL650, it updates each time you re-install the module.  Maybe the update is causing my problems?? I don't know?  

I was as surprised as you to see the Piper Aerostar.  That xplane 11 copy has every damn thing in it. Other modules work fine. I have zero issues with them. Now, it is only the CL650.  I figued the path to the two Xplanes (I sent the two files to you) would be sufficient but I guess it was not. Hense, the Piper Aerostar.

As for the crashes, when attempting to go into VR while using the CL650, it shuts xplane 11/12 down. I get a screen that wants me to send info to Laminar. You can choose to or not.  Then Xplane 11/12 shuts down and goes to desktop.  I shut it down when the cursor does not show (when at the xplane board while in the hangar) up to be able to click on items.  It just does not show up when using the CL650 and this will drive one nuts when that cursor disasppears and you play hell trying to get it back.  Xplane's "bind a key for the cursor in VR" simply does not work. 

As for Cameron's email, his standard retort to a question is directing people to the forum.  I would have hoped that a first-tiered "helpdesk" (if that is what he does),  if they know the answer to one's question, one would hope it would be answered then.  I am sure if I had intially seen that email, I followed his directions and just saw an ocean of information to wade through in an attempt to find the answers I am looking for.  Not finding it, I am sure I said the hell with it.  Especially since spending so much time already trying to make it work and getting pissed off.  Then someone tells you to waste more time "fishing" for info.  This is the old Marine in me.

Someone gave me a "down vote". I could care less about any "vote" What I do care about is an answer to my questions. If this individual knew the answer to my questions, one would hope they would want to help, not critique.  

Below are the files from the 1tb drive with ONLY Xplane 11, CL650 and TBM 900 installed. Nothing more. Hopefully, this helps.

I appreciate your insight and time dealing with these problems.

If I can be of any help, please let me know.  Thanks

 

 

Xplane 11 fresh install log.txt.txt log.txt

[Cameron]

1 hour ago, Rlondon said:

As for Cameron's email, his standard retort to a question is directing people to the forum.

It was a direct link to all CL650 manuals. There was no ocean of information to wade through.

[Rlondon]

I tire of your games of one-upmanship.  And yes, there is an "ocean of info" to wade through.  I have found the info I was looking for regarding manuals, etc. You have read what I recently wrote for assistance with a problem and yet, you still do not give answers. only trite responses.  Hopefully, someone else will have the answers to my VR/CL650 questions.  G'day
[Links Removed - personal attacks are not appropriate] - Capt. Crash

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by CaptCrash

[CaptCrash]

Hi @Rlondon I understand your frustration. Using the file explorer if you navigate to [X-Plane install directory]\Aircraft\X-Aviation\CL650 you will see several folders, one of them is called "Documentation". That folder has all the mentioned documents based on the release. My recommendation would be to delete the Log.txt file in the main X-Plane folder then start X-Plane in VR. If X-Plane crashes attach that log file. Sometimes Windows can be very dumb in how it handles files and may or may not properly overwrite the log file. Please attach that log file as a response to this thread and lets see if we can identify any potential issues.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Pils

[Rlondon]

I appreciate the info, CaptCrash.  I shall follow your directions and send you the files.

As for any personal attacks, it was not intended to be an "attack" at all.  Only to open one's eyes to an ongoing issue.  Some people are not "people persons".  Most tech people are not.  I just thought it was me, but it is not.

Irregardless, I am done with tit-for-tat. I only want to find an answer to my problem with the CL650.  Thanks again for your time. Later this morning I will get you what you asked for.  Be well.