Let's talk about flying airplanes?

[daemotron]

I wouldn't say the transition from 9 to 10 or 10 to 11 was smoother than the transition from 11 to 12. In all these transitions, the closer an aircraft model was built with Laminar's tools alone (i.e. PlaneMaker), the transition was easier to accomplish than for aircraft with loads of custom stuff - but easier doesn't mean as easy as just saving the acf file in the new planemaker version. With each major release (and many minor releases, too), Austin has modified the flight physics, or the engine model. So even for "barebone" planemaker aircraft models, that meant and means many hours of testing and tweaking parameters, until you have beaten the physics back into submission. If you add more complexity (custom logic coded into plugins, or beautiful 3d and textures), there are these aspects as well that you need to take care of.

I have no proof for my theory, but my assumption is that at the end of X-Plane 11, most payware aircraft models were far more complex than they were at the end of X-Plane 10. Towards the end of XP10, plugins were mainly used by highly sophisticated aircraft models and airliners, many small GA aircraft were built without plugins (or using simple, standard stuff like a scroll wheel plugin). Nearly all use custom plugin logic these days, and sophisticated 3d and texturing is a must have as well. For us pilots, this is great, because it means we get better, more realistic aircraft models to fly and study, bringing out their best (and worst). A Piper not only looks differently to a Cessna, it also perceptibly flies differently to one. We have options to get different instrument panels and avionics, we get EFBs and load managers, etc. However there's a price tag on all these great features: developers have not only to re-adjust flight physics and engine behaviour, but also rework their textures (to adapt to the new lighting engine) and rework their custom plugins to adapt to SDK changes.

At the end of XP 10's life cycle, the technical challenge was similar - Laminar introduced a new lighting model (PBR), which forced developers to redo all their texture work. The engine model didn't change with 11.00, but (iirc) with 11.10 - suddenly a lot of aircraft using the free shaft turboprop engine model burst into flames when you tried starting the engine(s). Also early in the 11 release cycle Laminar released a new SDK, introducing a bag full of changes. Basically things were similar like now - a lot of changes came with the first release, but quite a few changes didn't make it, and were introduced later in minor releases (anyone remembers the debate about prop wash and taildraggers...?). However, the total available fleet of payware aircraft was significantly smaller back then, and it was again a lot smaller when XP10 saw its first release.

My view on all this: X-Plane evolves with every minor and major release, and this is a good thing (much better than a "dead" platform anyway, though I can see that it would be beneficial for third party developers if those changes came in a more predictable and structured fashion). Just look how far X-Plane has evolved in the past 10 years; it's really amazing. In the same time, pay- and freeware aircraft also evolved significantly, becoming more and more complex, offering more and more features. This definitely is a huge challenge for third-party developers though, constantly forcing them to evolve, too. So it's only fair if they use the major release steps as time markers to ask for an upgrade fee - supporting a product throughout an X-Plane major release usually means adapting a couple of times to improvements and shenanigans Austin is coming up with, eating up precious development time that would otherwise never be compensated by corresponding revenues.

[VirtualAviator]

To be honest, @daemotron, I wasn't around during the transition from XP9 to XP10. I popped in right at XP11.1 (I still remember clouds "scissoring" by as I flew through them).  I did read somewhere that the transition from XP10 to XP11 was more straightforward. Thank you for letting me (us) know that it was traditionally just as messy. That gives me more confident in the product.

I find myself wondering if LR  devs are working 8-12 hours per day, like  madmen on a mission, on XP12 or, if each dev is causally working on their respective parts a few hours per week. I guess I'll never know, but I'd like to assume the former.

 

[Cameron]

41 minutes ago, VirtualGAaviator said:

I find myself wondering if LR  devs are working 8-12 hours per day, like  madmen on a mission, on XP12 or, if each dev is causally working on their respective parts a few hours per week. I guess I'll never know, but I'd like to assume the former.

I can't speak for every dev in the world, but I can tell you that the 8-12 hour day you mentioned is pretty much what's going on for devs under the X-Aviation umbrella. I would assume there's a number of the same from other stores.

I'll just add that I found the v10 to v11 transition to be quite a bit less cumbersome. PBR was the biggest hurdle for most of us, but that was manageable. OBJ lighting changes was another.

v12 seems to be incredibly more involved, but I do believe that to also be due to things @daemotron outlined. Devs are getting more and more comfortable writing plugins and pushing boundaries. It's great, but when we have major version changes like v12, it's a heck of an effort to get things functioning properly. I don't think a lot of customers realize this, and I know Laminar didn't help that cause when they tried to sell v12 as having backwards compatibility for v11 stuff. 

[Rick310]

1 hour ago, Cameron said:

I know Laminar didn't help that cause when they tried to sell v12 as having backwards compatibility for v11 stuff. 

This does not surpise me. In 1999 thru 2004 Microsoft said the same thing about backwards compatibility with every new simulator they come out with. It was lie.

This topic is all twisted. I will not being up 3rd party devs any more in this thread. The topic is about flying aircraft. Someone should start a new thread about what 3rd party devs are doing. And I take the blame for all this BS. I have no plans to buy XP12 anytime soon, so why should I give a s@#$ about what 3rd party devs are doing with xp12.

What do ya all say about getting back on topic. Lets talk about flying aircraft(IE XP11 or XP12).

[mjrhealth]

Just flew the CRJ700, YBTL Townsville to YSSY sydney @FL330 in XP12. Winds 90kts 250deg not quiet on the nose. light buffeting, clouds rain on occasion, cloud where up to about 31000 ft, nice landing though I missed some steps, procedures, not sure bug me or both, but landed ok. Used ATC till halfway through, than canceled IFR so I could do my own ILS landing. Just enjoy the atmosphere. Never go back to 11, to much atmosphere in 12.

Edited June 8, 2023 by mjrhealth

[Rick310]

On 6/8/2023 at 2:56 AM, mjrhealth said:

Just enjoy the atmosphere. Never go back to 11, to much atmosphere in 12.

Very happy to hear you are enjoying X-Plane 12. You are enjoying X-Plane 12 just like am enjoying X-Plane 11. I always fly in real world weather FS Global real world weather engine. Only difference is I do not see the rain and snow on the ground.

Your never going back to x-plane 11, just like I am never going back to Microsoft flight simulators.

The best thing of all is flight simulation and we both enjoy doing it.

[mjrhealth]

Yes its brought the best and worst out in people. Didnt ever think flying an aeroplane on a PC could do that.

Edited June 10, 2023 by mjrhealth

[VirtualAviator]

16 hours ago, Rick310 said:

Only difference is I do not see the rain and snow on the ground.

There's actually a difference in the way the airplane handles - i.e. cloud turbulence, and the flight physics has been tweaked. There's a difference in light rendering too. 

I don't mean to hi-jack this thread so in the spirit of the thread's title, should we start a new thread if you guys want to reply?

[Rick310]

2 minutes ago, VirtualGAaviator said:

should we start a new thread if you guys want to reply?

Go for it. This thread has really went sideways. Some of this is my fault. My mouth of rides my a@# sometimes.

[Rick310]

3 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

Yes its brought the best and worst out in people. Didnt ever think flying an aeroplane on a PC could do that.

I agree. It is not about flying aircraft on a pc, no one cares about that. This about the debate over which simulator is the best or the worst. In this forum it is between XP11 and XP12.

For me it is about flying aircraft on a PC. Love it. It has consumed my life. It what I want to do everyday, all day. And I do. Since 2019 I have close to 10,000 hours in xp11. Based on steam data.

Flying in Alaska in a small plane give me a hard on. The best place to fly in the summer time. IMO. JF Piper Arrow 3 is working very well for me in Alaska. Just have to watch the weather very close. Some airport sceneries in Alaska needs some work, but I am slowly working on that.

And last, I am spending way to much time on this forum. I need to spend more time flying.

[Rick310]

What A great day to fly in Alaska for Air Nevada Virtual Airlines!

[Rick310]

WOW the weather is good in Alaska all week. I now have 250 hours in my JF Piper Arrow 3. Landing on gravel runways in Alaska is not do my new paint job any good. Had a great day of flying today! Cheers.

[Rick310]

Fly Alaska and challenge your flying skills. All ways be willing to learn about flying an airplane. If you do not want to learn then stop flying and find another hobby.

[Rick310]

Flying around trip Barrow to Deadhorse. The two most northern towns in the United States. Over 300 days of below freezing temperatures. Using the JF Piper Arrow 3 for both flights.

[VirtualAviator]

16 minutes ago, Rick310 said:

The two most northern towns in the United States. Over 300 days of below freezing temperatures.

What's the temperature in that neck of the woods?

[Rick310]

53 degrees F in Deadhorse and 46 degrees F in Barrow.

[VirtualAviator]

Wow.. A regular heat wave there. It's been in the 50's and 60's every night in central North Carolina. That's extremely cool for this time of year. I'm more use to overnight lows in the mid eighties. Stay warm up there and blue skies.

Edited June 19, 2023 by VirtualGAaviator
Clarity

[Rick310]

The weather has been nice all week up here. Yeah it has been in the low 90's here in vegas, it should be hanging around 100 this time a year.

[Rick310]

The weather is turning in Alaska. I am in Barrow, and it looks good. Where oh where can I go now. The JF Piper Arrow 3 is running good, no problems so far.

[VirtualAviator]

I just learned that Jim Tweto from Flying Wild Alaska succumbed to an accident in his Cessna 180. I've seen the show so I'm saddened by this news. Tons of love and condolences to the Tweto Family.

[Rick310]

OH MY!!! He died doing what he loved to do. Ariel was quoted as saying. A legend in Alaskan aviation. Very sad. Fly Wild Alaska has been my favorite series to watch for many years and I still watch it today.

[Rick310]

Lost my mojo to fly in Alaska. I am headed home to Panica, Nevada. Rest in Peace Jim Tweeto.

But I will back next summer.

[VirtualAviator]

No place like home. I admire you for getting out of your home area in low and slow GA aircraft. Unless I'm doing a PE flight I tend to stick really close to home. I've heard that a high percentage of fllght simmer do too. There's a whole world out there.

I can say that 90% of my flights are in the US. Canada makes up 9% and the remaining 1% is other countries.  I hope you get your mojo back. I've enjoyed your blog.

[Rick310]

10 hours ago, VirtualGAaviator said:

No place like home. I admire you for getting out of your home area in low and slow GA aircraft. Unless I'm doing a PE flight I tend to stick really close to home. I've heard that a high percentage of fllght simmer do too. There's a whole world out there.

I can say that 90% of my flights are in the US. Canada makes up 9% and the remaining 1% is other countries.  I hope you get your mojo back. I've enjoyed your blog.

So you have never went around the world in a big bird(airliner)? I did a few times back in the of FS9 days, Never in x-plane.

One day when I am ready, I would like to ask you send some good municipal airports in North Carolina. So I can add them to my database in my VA.

Most of my flying is in the US. Mainly the western US, but go east as far as Kansas, Texas and sometimes Louisiana.

Last summer I spent all summer in Alaska. I started to do the same this summer, but cut short because I think to much. I do plan to go back next summer.

Thank-you for your kind words.

[VirtualAviator]

I am just starting to fly the "big birds", again something I've always said I'll never do. Never say never, right? I have logged quite a few hours in the CL650, though. I can program the FMC, fly SIDs and STARs. It holds the course and sticks nicely to the VNAV profile.

Most of my jet flights have originated out of Raleigh-Durham and I've gone to places like Dulles-IAD, Orlando-MCO, Atlanta-ATL, Memphis-MEM, etc. I'm not a long-haul flyer. In piston-driven and turbo GA aircraft, I've limited my flight from 30nm to about 500nm depending on the aircraft, where the MU2 or PC12 might be a 500nm flight.

I really don't have many airport recommendations. I downloaded some backcountry freeware airports for Idaho and Alaska. These were mainly for bush-type aircraft.  Otherwise, depending on the speed of the aircraft, I'd use Skyvector to pick out an airport. I tend to limit my flights to no more than a couple hours.

As for NC airports I particularly like these: Asheville-AVL, Fayetteville-FAY, and Charlotte-CLT.