KirkR Posted September 11, 2022 Report Posted September 11, 2022 For the IRL (in real life) Challenger Pilots who frequent the forum, I'm sure that I'm not the only Hot Start sim pilot who would value your perspectives and examples of approaches (instrument and VFR) based on your experience with the Challenger, that would serve as good ones to learn and practice along the course of developing competency with the Chally sim. What would you say are some of the ones that would serve to further our education, but also develop our competency with the Hot Start CL60? And what insights or references might you have where this is concerned? 1 Quote
VictoryAJ Posted September 13, 2022 Report Posted September 13, 2022 Assuming you are comfortable flying normal profiles and are proficient keeping up with the airplane in general of course, so you're basically up for a challenge.... KTEB RUUDY6 Departure from KTEB. Climb Via the SID. It's a right of passage. Uncle RUUDY continues to challenge IRL pilots to level off initially at 1500ft while actually making sure the jet is on the lateral track. Learn the correct phraseology and procedures for a "Climb Via" clearance. Don't forget the top altitude! ILS 6 circle to Runway 1. This is typically done when winds are gusty from NW where the crosswind landing straight in becomes a real issue. Set your weather VFR but once you get comfortable - try this with winds 310 to 340 sustained at 16 to 20, with gusts to 32 once you get comfortable. https://code7700.com/kteb_circling_conundrum.htm#gsc.tab=0 Also pay close attention to the ILS itself - as the 1500ft at DANDY is mandatory. You will usually be vectored onto the approach just inside VINGS at 2000, and will be cleared for the approach with a reminder to cross DANDY at 1500. This is important - for the same reasons leveling at 1500 on the RUUDY6 is important. (There's a big airport next door to TEB) You can't just arm approach and let her grab the GS from VINGS as you'll miss the 1500ft step down. How will you fly this approach in terms of automation? How will you program the FMS to help you? What's your plan rolling out on final, and then seconds later around 300 AGL you're told to go around because traffic in position didn't takeoff yet? Are you setup for the published miss? Which published miss are you flying? How are you joining it? IRL tower is likely to issue the GA and instructions, but they're out of the office today.... KASE LOC DME E with wx=CAVOK, and calm to light winds favoring 15. Start easy. https://code7700.com/kase.htm#gsc.tab=0 Read all of that. Now read it again. Typically if coming from the east, Denver/ASE approach will bring you in on a left base vector north of DBL at 14000. From the west I often see them loop you around the south side of DBL and do a left 180 to join the sequence. Can you accept an approach clearance for this approach? If you acquire the airport visually after cleared for the approach - can you descend below the stepdowns on your own with no further ATC interaction once the airport is in sight? What can you expect from the EGPWS on this approach (it's clearly audible to the folks sitting behind you) Lots to think about on this one. Go fly it a few times and you'll start to figure out why. Surely you will execute the missed at some point. How will you setup for it, and how will you logistically execute it/manage it in terms of FCP selections, FMS and NAV setup? How will that vary if you execute the missed before the MAP? Assuming you make it to 500 AGL stabilized for RWY 15 on the PAPI and tower tells you to go-around, and as you start climbing......pull an engine back to idle. What's your plan now? From over DBL , fly the Hunter Creek visual to runway 33 with winds 320 at 10, gusting 16. Watch out for the paragliding over Aspen mountain - and watch out for Aspen Mountain! Don't anger folks in Aspen Village with your noise either. (I've not seen this done IRL in the CL, but there are plenty of Citation and similar video I've seen.) https://youtu.be/zgg8PkAqTew Departing ASE you will get the LINDZ9 and you will likely be a party to the WRAP outlined in the code7700 link. Pretend you have 6 pax with plenty of bags and you're heading east to KHPN. Can you make the climb gradient if you lose an engine? Fun visual approaches in NY area - especially good if you have some good NY scenery: KLGA Expressway Visual 31 KJFK Parkway Visual RWY 13L/13R KEWR Stadium Visual 29 SBRJ Fly any of the RNAV approaches to the prescribed visual tracks, for example: RNAV (GNSS) C RWY 02R or the RNAV (GNSS) D RWY 20L Be careful with your pre-flight planning in regards to landing performance KSNA Fly the DSNEE5 RNAV Arrival from the West to land ILS 20R. Read up on SNA Noise abatement procedures here: https://www.ocair.com/business/general-aviation/pilot-information/noise-abatement/ Dig into the books to see what you can expect from your CL over the monitors Read up on your NADPs and depart both 20R (typical) and 02L (rare) and Climb Via the PIGGN3 Departure in VNAV incorporating your NADP. LFLB ILS Z Rwy 18 to a missed approach or to the VPT RWY 36 Quote
FYG001 Posted September 14, 2022 Report Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) For those flying in Europe, the following 'interesting' approaches come to mind : Nice RNP LFMN Lugano LSZA Bolzano LIPB London City EGLC Innsbruck LOWI La Mole LFTZ (though not allowed for CL60) Ajaccio LFKJ with VPT A RWY 20 La Seu LESU ... Edited September 20, 2022 by FYG001 1 Quote
richjb Posted September 25, 2022 Report Posted September 25, 2022 On 9/13/2022 at 6:12 PM, VictoryAJ said: Assuming you are comfortable flying normal profiles and are proficient keeping up with the airplane in general of course, so you're basically up for a challenge.... KTEB RUUDY6 Departure from KTEB. Climb Via the SID. It's a right of passage. Uncle RUUDY continues to challenge IRL pilots to level off initially at 1500ft while actually making sure the jet is on the lateral track. Learn the correct phraseology and procedures for a "Climb Via" clearance. Don't forget the top altitude! ILS 6 circle to Runway 1. This is typically done when winds are gusty from NW where the crosswind landing straight in becomes a real issue. Set your weather VFR but once you get comfortable - try this with winds 310 to 340 sustained at 16 to 20, with gusts to 32 once you get comfortable. https://code7700.com/kteb_circling_conundrum.htm#gsc.tab=0 Also pay close attention to the ILS itself - as the 1500ft at DANDY is mandatory. You will usually be vectored onto the approach just inside VINGS at 2000, and will be cleared for the approach with a reminder to cross DANDY at 1500. This is important - for the same reasons leveling at 1500 on the RUUDY6 is important. (There's a big airport next door to TEB) You can't just arm approach and let her grab the GS from VINGS as you'll miss the 1500ft step down. How will you fly this approach in terms of automation? How will you program the FMS to help you? What's your plan rolling out on final, and then seconds later around 300 AGL you're told to go around because traffic in position didn't takeoff yet? Are you setup for the published miss? Which published miss are you flying? How are you joining it? IRL tower is likely to issue the GA and instructions, but they're out of the office today.... KASE LOC DME E with wx=CAVOK, and calm to light winds favoring 15. Start easy. https://code7700.com/kase.htm#gsc.tab=0 Read all of that. Now read it again. Typically if coming from the east, Denver/ASE approach will bring you in on a left base vector north of DBL at 14000. From the west I often see them loop you around the south side of DBL and do a left 180 to join the sequence. Can you accept an approach clearance for this approach? If you acquire the airport visually after cleared for the approach - can you descend below the stepdowns on your own with no further ATC interaction once the airport is in sight? What can you expect from the EGPWS on this approach (it's clearly audible to the folks sitting behind you) Lots to think about on this one. Go fly it a few times and you'll start to figure out why. Surely you will execute the missed at some point. How will you setup for it, and how will you logistically execute it/manage it in terms of FCP selections, FMS and NAV setup? How will that vary if you execute the missed before the MAP? Assuming you make it to 500 AGL stabilized for RWY 15 on the PAPI and tower tells you to go-around, and as you start climbing......pull an engine back to idle. What's your plan now? From over DBL , fly the Hunter Creek visual to runway 33 with winds 320 at 10, gusting 16. Watch out for the paragliding over Aspen mountain - and watch out for Aspen Mountain! Don't anger folks in Aspen Village with your noise either. (I've not seen this done IRL in the CL, but there are plenty of Citation and similar video I've seen.) https://youtu.be/zgg8PkAqTew Departing ASE you will get the LINDZ9 and you will likely be a party to the WRAP outlined in the code7700 link. Pretend you have 6 pax with plenty of bags and you're heading east to KHPN. Can you make the climb gradient if you lose an engine? Fun visual approaches in NY area - especially good if you have some good NY scenery: KLGA Expressway Visual 31 KJFK Parkway Visual RWY 13L/13R KEWR Stadium Visual 29 SBRJ Fly any of the RNAV approaches to the prescribed visual tracks, for example: RNAV (GNSS) C RWY 02R or the RNAV (GNSS) D RWY 20L Be careful with your pre-flight planning in regards to landing performance KSNA Fly the DSNEE5 RNAV Arrival from the West to land ILS 20R. Read up on SNA Noise abatement procedures here: https://www.ocair.com/business/general-aviation/pilot-information/noise-abatement/ Dig into the books to see what you can expect from your CL over the monitors Read up on your NADPs and depart both 20R (typical) and 02L (rare) and Climb Via the PIGGN3 Departure in VNAV incorporating your NADP. LFLB ILS Z Rwy 18 to a missed approach or to the VPT RWY 36 TEB: RUUDY SID: 1) If you're using climb via procedures and VNAV, make sure VNAV is armed prior to takeoff. If it's not, you're not going level at 1500' with the ASEL set to 2000' 2) If using DCL CPDLC to get your clearance, and ATC sends an amended route, make sure you reload your SID because it won't be in the revised route. Not sure if that's replicated with FANS, Hoppie's, VATSIM since I have not had time to explore that feature, but it has caught a few IRL pilots recently. 3) Want to know more about climb via/descend via, please see NBAA's briefing page and presentations: Climb/Descend Via and Speed Adjustment Clearances | NBAA - National Business Aviation Association ASE: LOC/DME E: 1) once comfortable in VMC, try flying it in IMC conditions. Most pilots/operators require visual with the airport at the FAF or they don't descend further. If you see the airport at the FAF, how do you get down. It's a steep 6.00 plus descent angle? VNAV is no help. 3) Balked landing? What if you have go around after you well below MDA and past the MAP? You're climbing into high terrain with no missed approach procedure? Can you stay visual and land? Can you rejoin the missed? If the engine fails, you better have an OEI escape procedure. Somewhere, I have copy of one for CL604 or CL605. Need to find it. Can't build one for my CL300. No performance data for an OEI escape procedure with 30 degree banked turn, which is what's required. Had it for our DA2000. ASE: LINDZ9: Hopefully you have OEI procedure if an engine fails. KSNA: Instead of the DSNEE5, fly the STAAY Four: 00377STAYY (faa.gov) 00377STAYY_C (faa.gov) New flight codes released this month will allow pilots to indicate "RF Leg" capable without being RNP AR APCH. Those that do, can expect the STAAY departure. This is one of the few procedures in the NAS that use RF legs that is not also RNP AR APCH required. You also get to practice climb via procedures and airspeed management through the FMS - Pink bug since airspeed control is critical to maintaining track on RF legs. Just a few thoughts. Rich Boll Wichita, KS 2 1 Quote
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