[OPEN 0002983] Oceanic CLX

[siebjeee]

Hello,

First of all, I very much enjoy this aircraft and all in depth systems!

Question, flying on VATSIM Moncton center is online (CZQM). He advised he would be able to process my oceanic clearance via CPDLC.

So, I logged on to CZQM via FANS CPDLC (successfully) and then requested Oceanic clearance via the OCEANIC CLX option. (Selecting GANDER as the applicable facility)

The controller advised he did not receive my request.

Is that a failure on my end, a system that has not been implemented (which of course is 100% fine ) or would that be an issue on the controllers end?

Thanks!

Edited June 1, 2022 by Pils

[Pils]

Can you go on http://www.hoppie.nl/acars/system/log.html and find your messages please? (As far as I recall OCEANIC CLX isn’t part of FANS CPDLC on the CL-650 so logging on wasn’t technically necessary, cool that’s it worked though.)

[siebjeee]

I see what happened.

Due to the fact that I chose GANDER as the facility it sent the request to CYQX instead of CYQM.

Any chance i can change the facility for the oceanic CLX?

[Pils]

I don’t think so? I think it’s expecting the Vatsim controllers be signed into Hoppie as CZQX because that’s Gander in real life. I’ll ask the developer if they can add an option to override the station for “GANDER”. Maybe next time you could ask the controller why they’re using Moncton and not Gander?

[ois650]

On 5/2/2022 at 1:27 PM, siebjeee said:

Question, flying on VATSIM Moncton center is online (CZQM). He advised he would be able to process my oceanic clearance via CPDLC.

Domestic ATC shouldn't be processing your oceanic clearance. The clearance is issued by Gander Oceanic and given to you via CPDLC OR a dedicated VHF clearance delivery frequency OR in the event of a reclearance relayed via domestic ATC over VHF.

[siebjeee]

That clarifies a lot.

Moncton said he would be able to do it. Thats why i was wondering.

All clear guys, thanks very much!

[Pils]

It’s just the way Vatsim works I guess; when only Moncton is online they control Gander Domestic too. I’m not sure if that also means oceanic clearances can be done by Moncton if Gander Oceanic isn’t online too. But @oisin650 the Chally is sending to CZQX and not CZQO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[ois650]

7 hours ago, Pils said:

But @oisin650 the Chally is sending to CZQX and not CZQO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

That's a problem within the box I guess? Should be routed to the oceanic address. 

7 hours ago, Pils said:

oceanic clearances can be done by Moncton if Gander Oceanic isn’t online

No need for an oceanic clearance if the oceanic controller isn't online. 

[Pils]

1 hour ago, oisin650 said:

No need for an oceanic clearance if the oceanic controller isn't online. 

Obviously the Moncton controller was willing though.

1 hour ago, oisin650 said:

That's a problem within the box I guess? Should be routed to the oceanic address. 

I remember discussing it with Toto and he did it this way for whatever reason. Do you have an official source we can point him at?

[ois650]

16 hours ago, Pils said:

Obviously the Moncton controller was willing though.

Just a "vatsim-ism" I guess

16 hours ago, Pils said:

Do you have an official source we can point him at?

Will take a look

[ois650]

After some discussion I think we're gonna put this down to a "vatsim-ism". Though it was nice of Moncton to give you a clearance, that isn't how the real world works and therefore the oceanic clearance will not work. Unfortunately there is a limit to the "vatsim-isms" that the Challenger can accommodate and we recommend that you revert to voice in the event of receiving an oceanic clearance off a non-oceanic controller. "Problem on the controller's end" probably most appropriate!

[Jakobb]

If I understand this correctly, eastbound flights do get their OCA clearance by Canadian ACCs. The fact that this was translated 1:1 to CPDLC services might be a Vatsimism but even if it were Gander or Shanwick directly, the nature of Hoppie obviously forbids just one logon for several controllers. So if more than one OCA controller or delivery is present, the fixed logon format won't work anymore. Manually editing the station would therefore make sense in any case. Maybe this can be reconsidered? 

17.8.3 Canada: https://www.icao.int/WACAF/Documents/Meetings/2019/SAT24/SAT 24 WP 17e _APP E_NAT Doc 007 (EN) - Edition V.2019-2_eff.pdf

Edited June 1, 2022 by Jakobb

[Pils]

10 hours ago, Jakobb said:

If I understand this correctly, eastbound flights do get their OCA clearance by Canadian ACCs. The fact that this was translated 1:1 to CPDLC services might be a Vatsimism but even if it were Gander or Shanwick directly, the nature of Hoppie obviously forbids just one logon for several controllers. So if more than one OCA controller or delivery is present, the fixed logon format won't work anymore. Manually editing the station would therefore make sense in any case. Maybe this can be reconsidered? 

17.8.3 Canada: https://www.icao.int/WACAF/Documents/Meetings/2019/SAT24/SAT 24 WP 17e _APP E_NAT Doc 007 (EN) - Edition V.2019-2_eff.pdf

The suggestion had already been passed onto the developer. They have the final say.

[Jakobb]

On 6/1/2022 at 10:12 PM, Pils said:

They have the final say.

absolutely but I had thee feeling that this was dismissed on the basis of being a vatsimism, so I wanted to provide a reason that is is not just a vatsimism