Career mode payload: source?

[Rodeo]

Having watched some of the presentation videos, I find it somewhat unclear where the simulation determines the actual payload from.

I've seen where in the FMS one can enter the payload via the CDU interface, but one can enter any arbitrary numbers there, which may or may not match the actual payload present on the aircraft.

I've come up with the following hypotheses:

• I've seen the FBO request sheet where we can enter the crew and passenger counts, but with no precision whatsoever (male/female/child, heavy or skinny, amount of luggage, if any). Is this really the source of the payload weights, and if so, is it somewhat randomized and are we expected to guess the weight of the passengers and their amount of luggage?
• SimBrief does offer more flexibility in setting up a payload (passenger, freight or custom ZFW), and we can link our SimBrief account to the simulation, but it's not obvious if or at what point the simulation would check SimBrief for payload figures; also, if it uses SimBrief for payload, then what happens if the pilot uses something else for flight planning purposes?
• I suppose for the sake of simplicity, the simulation could just read the payload figures as they are entered via the CDU and set the actual payload to match them?
• do we get a loadsheet or similar information somewhere that wasn't shown in the preview streams or which I missed?
• any other solution I haven't thought of yet, which is probably the most likely hypothesis to turn out true in the end 

I realize IRL, the pilot would never know the actual payload with single-kg precision like one does in most currently simulated aircraft, but the current situation seems overly opaque nonetheless; surely somewhere there must be some data giving a hint at how much the passengers and their luggage weigh (that golfing equipment for the entire family, fancy leather bags and maybe a shoe collection or two must add up somewhat)

Regards,

Tim

[Graeme_77]

The passenger load you specify in the FBO is used to drive the passenger weight calculation. The weight is randomised, accounting for factors like seasons and even geographic regions. I will try and get the max and min weights possible and add them here if I can.

Two pilots are accounted for in the operational empty weight.

If you want to change the payload, you can freely do this in the X-Plane weight and balance menu. So you can match simbrief exactly if you prefer.

On the FMS it calculates the performance based on the weight you enter. You can enter ZFW directly if that's easier than use pax/cargo fields for your particular operation. Some operators will add 500kg to the loadsheet or caluculated weight when doing takeoff calcs to make sure you've got some margin. 

At the moment a loadsheet is not provided - I agree that would be a very useful and authentic thing, and the developers already have my feedback on that. Business jet operations are not like airline operations with fixed seating ( "No, Miss VIP, you must sit on the Lav seat due CG limitations!" ), so some kind of range of CG needs to be calculated and displayed rather than a single point.

Hope that makes sense?

[Rodeo]

It does. A bit disappointing that it's that random (I would prefer a bit of control over maybe the total number of bags), but as long as I know what to expect.

50 minutes ago, Graeme_77 said:

I will try and get the max and min weights possible and add them here if I can.

Please do! They would be useful in creating a customized SimBrief profile using some sort of weighted average passenger weight (and, at the very least, it would be useful to know if the FBO passengers do include some luggage or prefer to travel lightly).

59 minutes ago, Graeme_77 said:

Some operators will add 500kg to the loadsheet or caluculated weight when doing takeoff calcs to make sure you've got some margin.

Some of this information should probably be added to the FMS primer or some other documentation too

54 minutes ago, Graeme_77 said:

Two pilots are accounted for in the operational empty weight.

Thanks! The OEW is indicated at 12,315kg (operations preference PDF and SimBrief profile) and the BOW at 12,556kg (FMS Primer PDF and screenshots of presentation videos). Can you maybe elaborate on how the BOW relates to the OEW (in the Challenger specifically)?

Regards,

Tim

[Rodeo]

Oh, and any idea what happens in training mode? Just an empty aircraft without passengers?

[Graeme_77]

12556 kg in X-Plane includes the pilots. Operational Empty Weight or Basic Operational Weight.
12315 kg in the SimBrief profile does not include crew weight. Basic Empty Weight.

Pax weights - 58kg - 81kg, with 6kg standard deviation, depending on geographic location

Seasonal variation +/- 4 kgs

Baggage - 15kg with 4kg deviation.

Non-persistent mode gives you the aircraft with just two pilots.

It is intended to bring a Study menu visualisation of the passenger distribution and other parameters to the aircraft in a future enhancement.

[Rodeo]

Excellent, thanks!

[Rodeo]

I've come up with the following:

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Rodeo

[Rodeo]

I hope I got the extra flight plan remarks correctly, let me know if you find any issues

[divinglyc]

Hi! I am a little bit confused. I fly non-career mode most of the time( in fact that's only 3 flights so far ). I enter the Pax number, weight and cargo weight in the FMS. The FMS would calculate a ZFW for me. However, when I check the XP weight/balance setting page, the ZFW is not the same as that in the FMS. So in the end, should I make any adjustment in the XP weight/balance page?  If I leave it alone, would the plane load it self according the numer I entered in the FMS?(including the fuel wight). Or should I enter the weight anywhere in the sim to make it actually take effect?

Thanks a lot.

[Pils]

1 hour ago, divinglyc said:

Hi! I am a little bit confused. I fly non-career mode most of the time( in fact that's only 3 flights so far ). I enter the Pax number, weight and cargo weight in the FMS. The FMS would calculate a ZFW for me. However, when I check the XP weight/balance setting page, the ZFW is not the same as that in the FMS. So in the end, should I make any adjustment in the XP weight/balance page?  If I leave it alone, would the plane load it self according the numer I entered in the FMS?(including the fuel wight). Or should I enter the weight anywhere in the sim to make it actually take effect?

Thanks a lot.

In non-persistent mode there’s no FBO to tell how many pax there are so you use the X-Plane weight & balance interface to set the payload (and only payload, don’t touch fuel!). In real life you don’t magic people into existence by typing into the FMS so you don’t in this simulation either.

[divinglyc]

7 hours ago, Pils said:

In non-persistent mode there’s no FBO to tell how many pax there are so you use the X-Plane weight & balance interface to set the payload (and only payload, don’t touch fuel!). In real life you don’t magic people into existence by typing into the FMS so you don’t in this simulation either.

Thank you so much. So here is what I think I should do.. I enter the pax number and weight and also the cargo weight in the FMS. Then I enter the sum of the above weight into the payload of the XP weight/balance interface. As to fuel, I only enter that in the FMS. Is that correct? )The reason I enter pax/cargo/fuel in the FMS is for the FMS to calculate Vspeed.)

[supercow18]

How about the cargo weights? I cannot specify cargo weight on Jenny's sheet, do I set that in the X-Plane weights and balance? Do I assume every passenger will carry around 15kg of baggage and do the math to enter it accordingly in the cargo weight line on the FMC?

[Rodeo]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:41 AM, supercow18 said:

Do I assume every passenger will carry around 15kg of baggage and do the math to enter it accordingly in the cargo weight line on the FMC?

That.

[bpcw0001]

On 1/9/2022 at 12:06 AM, Graeme_77 said:

If you want to change the payload, you can freely do this in the X-Plane weight and balance menu. So you can match simbrief exactly if you prefer.

That's what I ended up doing, so as to have precise control over actual pax number, pax weights and cargo/baggage. Works fine.
I just let the fuel truck refuel, so as to make sure that the tanks get filled in the right order and with the correct internal flow logic.