Hullu-poika Posted January 30, 2018 Report Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) Hello to everyone. May be this topic could merge several problems which might occur during a flight preparation. From my side I'd like to point out following problem. When I choose arrival procedure at ENGM I am facing every time a little problem. My actions: press DEP/ARR buttoh; chose arrival runway and approach type on the right side of a menu; choose STAR on the left side; choose transition point. Result: the STAR procedure is automatically erased from the route. The abscence of STAR can be visible on a map using a LEGS menu. Solution: I have to choose arrival runway and approach type on the right side of DEP/ARR menu once again. Then STAR procedure automatically appears (despite I do not choose STAR second time). I am afraid it could be a bug in such a particular case for all STARs of ENGM. By the way I have not checked another possibilities: probably a STAR is deleted after coosing of a transition. May be it is not necessary there to choose a transition point... Edited March 10, 2018 by Morten
Litjan Posted January 31, 2018 Report Posted January 31, 2018 Hi, while I haven´t checked explicitly for ENGM, a lot of times STARs and TRANSitions nowadays live "side by side". It is not like in the old times (or in the US) where you have a STAR TRANSITION - then - STAR - then - TRANSITION - then - APPROACH - then - RUNWAY. IF you look at EDDF, for example, you have many PSA STARs (starting at PSA), but also many PSA TRANSITIONs (starting at PSA). If you choose a PSA STAR and then a PSA transition, the STAR will be erazed again. Cheers, Jan 1
crisk73 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Posted January 31, 2018 In addition to what Jan said, I'd suggest with the current version to always follow this sequence on selecting Arrivals: STAR - TRANSITION (left side) - APP - TRANSITION (right side) this should work fine, and that is in fact the "classic" way (US) to fill arrival procedures. Now I recall it's been said (Jan please correct me if I'm wrong) that the next release of the FMC will allow for more flexible SID/STAR selection and to get a number of acknowledged bugs fixed. 1
Tom Stian Posted January 31, 2018 Report Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) I have also noticed strange issues at ENGM if you dont do it in the "correct" order. Do it this way. STAR-RUNWAY-TRANSITION. 1 hour ago, Litjan said: It is not like in the old times (or in the US) where you have a STAR TRANSITION - then - STAR - then - TRANSITION - then - APPROACH - then - RUNWAY. Have you been in UUEE (Moscow)? .. I just gave up find the correct STAR and transitions. Its a mayhem.. Edited January 31, 2018 by Tom Stian
crisk73 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tom Stian said: Have you been in UUEE (Moscow)? .. I just gave up find the correct STAR. Its a mayhem.. Yeah.. and when the ATC starts telling to descend to XXX METERS QFE YYYY?.. Not only STARS are a mess but you also have to mess up with conversions... (I love flying to Russia by the way).
Litjan Posted January 31, 2018 Report Posted January 31, 2018 7 hours ago, crisk73 said: Now I recall it's been said (Jan please correct me if I'm wrong) that the next release of the FMC will allow for more flexible SID/STAR selection and to get a number of acknowledged bugs fixed. That is correct! 1
Hullu-poika Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Posted March 9, 2018 On 31.01.2018 at 9:55 AM, Litjan said: Hi, while I haven´t checked explicitly for ENGM, a lot of times STARs and TRANSitions nowadays live "side by side". It is not like in the old times (or in the US) where you have a STAR TRANSITION - then - STAR - then - TRANSITION - then - APPROACH - then - RUNWAY. IF you look at EDDF, for example, you have many PSA STARs (starting at PSA), but also many PSA TRANSITIONs (starting at PSA). If you choose a PSA STAR and then a PSA transition, the STAR will be erazed again. Cheers, Jan I guess there is a different thing in ENGM than in your example for EDDF.
Hullu-poika Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) On 31.01.2018 at 11:37 AM, crisk73 said: In addition to what Jan said, I'd suggest with the current version to always follow this sequence on selecting Arrivals: STAR - TRANSITION (left side) - APP - TRANSITION (right side) this should work fine, and that is in fact the "classic" way (US) to fill arrival procedures. Now I recall it's been said (Jan please correct me if I'm wrong) that the next release of the FMC will allow for more flexible SID/STAR selection and to get a number of acknowledged bugs fixed. Thank you! Sorry guys. I was able to check this just a couple of weeks after your reply. It works well in such sequence! But is not it more correct (for real operations) to choose a runway first and then an approach? Edited March 9, 2018 by Hullu-poika
Litjan Posted March 10, 2018 Report Posted March 10, 2018 13 hours ago, Hullu-poika said: Thank you! Sorry guys. I was able to check this just a couple of weeks after your reply. It works well in such sequence! But is not it more correct (for real operations) to choose a runway first and then an approach? I think that we have a fix in 1.21 to make the "other way" also work. So go ahead and try that and please let me know if it doesn´t work! Cheers, Jan 1
Hullu-poika Posted March 10, 2018 Author Report Posted March 10, 2018 11 hours ago, Litjan said: I think that we have a fix in 1.21 to make the "other way" also work. So go ahead and try that and please let me know if it doesn´t work! Cheers, Jan Confirmed! I have tried it with XP11 and "other way" worked good! 1
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