P.180 Avanti II - Support

[korkiley]

9 hours ago, airfighter said:

No, you should not turn off Gizmo. This plane uses SASL (instead of Gizmo), but this should not be the problem. I own many SASL-driven aircrafts and never had any problem, at all.

From my research, this plane, Cessna 208B, has not XP11 support. Without being SASL-guru, I think that runs on an older SASL version, which is not full compatible with XP11. Unfortunately, from what I am aware of, XP11 updates on Carenado fleet means to rebuy the plane at full price. 

Hi Ilias, I found the answer which was related to my suspicion. I guess in XP 11.10 they decided to allow the directional gyro to drift the way it would in real life. Although I had set it to match the magnetic compass, that didn't fix the problem. The fix that worked was to set a key to activate Navigation &Radios/Indicators/vacuum DG sync to magnetic north.

My C208B was one that Carenado upgraded last year for XP 11, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. So I'm good now. Thanks.

Kor

[ilias.tselios]

27 minutes ago, korkiley said:

Hi Ilias, I found the answer which was related to my suspicion. I guess in XP 11.10 they decided to allow the directional gyro to drift the way it would in real life. Although I had set it to match the magnetic compass, that didn't fix the problem. The fix that worked was to set a key to activate Navigation &Radios/Indicators/vacuum DG sync to magnetic north.

My C208B was one that Carenado upgraded last year for XP 11, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. So I'm good now. Thanks.

Kor

Cool that you find what causing the error. Happy flying!

[RoyW]

I love this aircraft, everything that is supposed to work does work, except that I cannot get rid of the yokes. I saw the post about the click spot on the top left of the PFD, but try as I might, I can find no click spot - driving me crazy. Is there another way, such as obj file mod?

[Chris Beckett]

I am trying to figure out the EFIS indicators. It seems there are 4 colors at work: Red, Yellow, Green and White. From the documentation, so research online and some trial and error, it seems takeoff RPM should be around 2000 with condition levers max, and cruise around 1800 with condition levers around 50-60%. An AFX indicator also turns on, but I have no idea what it means? I have noticed at cruise you can often significantly reduce power (and fuel flow) with often negligible loss in speed.

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2018 by Chris Beckett

[ilias.tselios]

8 hours ago, RoyW said:

I love this aircraft, everything that is supposed to work does work, except that I cannot get rid of the yokes. I saw the post about the click spot on the top left of the PFD, but try as I might, I can find no click spot - driving me crazy. Is there another way, such as obj file mod?

If you move the mouse to this area, you should get a click spot. Also, by turning on the option to see the click regions, you should see a small green line (the manipulator is just behind the 3D object, so is mostly hidden from view). If you don't get that, I will send you my cockpit.obj file that works for sure.

 

11 minutes ago, Chris Beckett said:

I am trying to figure out the EFIS indicators. It seems there are 4 colors at work: Red, Yellow, Green and White. From the documentation, so research online and some trial and error, it seems takeoff RPM should be around 2000 with condition levers max, and cruise around 1800 with condition levers around 50-60%. An AFX indicator also turns on, but I have no idea what it means? I have noticed at cruise you can often significantly reduce power (and fuel flow) with often negligible loss in speed.

 

 

 

As I've posted in the features list:

On 12/14/2017 at 1:28 AM, airfighter said:

Flight Model: Adjustments to engine model, trim and controls, and many others. What is not properly simulated and needs a lot of investigation is the propeller's model which it ok, but not accurate. This remains for a future update.

Propeller simulation is off, and will be addressed in the next update. There are some changes in the latests XP11 version that partially have change the propeller (and engine) operations. Avanti's engines are almost identical with Austin's one, so the changes have affected a lot, and "broke" the way things were working before. This was not trivial to be solved within the time I had available, for this release.

With condition levers at MAX PWR and PWR levers at idle, you get around 1015 rpm and torque around 4.5%, but as soon as you advance the PWR levers a bit (torque ~16%) you will get 2000 rpm. Well this is not spot on, but let's say "ok", until I fix it.

AFX is the indication that the AUTOFEATHER is armed (switch on and Ng above 90%).

[RoyW]

Ilias,
Still no click region for yokes - showing click regions displays nothing in the top left area of PFD - strange because all else seems normal. Also, power levers have reverse region, but do not move into that region. Is reverse or beta modeled?

[Chris Beckett]

@airfighter Ah, thanks for the reply. I have never flown an aircraft with Autofeather (ie AFX). I found a few good articles discussing it which helped. I have read quite a few articles on the real Avanti II and gleaned as much as I could with regard to climb performance, fuel burn at various altitudes, expected fast and efficient cruise speeds, etc. I will accept your assessment that the propeller simulation is off, but from what I have seen, the overall performance of the aircraft seems pretty damn good, even if the actual indicators are not aligning well with the position of the levers, etc. So far I am delighted that it is as accurate as it is.

 

[korkiley]

6 hours ago, Chris Beckett said:

@airfighter Ah, thanks for the reply. I have never flown an aircraft with Autofeather (ie AFX). I found a few good articles discussing it which helped. I have read quite a few articles on the real Avanti II and gleaned as much as I could with regard to climb performance, fuel burn at various altitudes, expected fast and efficient cruise speeds, etc. I will accept your assessment that the propeller simulation is off, but from what I have seen, the overall performance of the aircraft seems pretty damn good, even if the actual indicators are not aligning well with the position of the levers, etc. So far I am delighted that it is as accurate as it is.

 

1. Assign Toggle thrust reversers to a key. Push the key after landing and advance the power levers to maximize reverse thrust. I find this to be the best solution.

2. I use the CH Throttle Quadrant for my power, prop and condition levers. With this hardware, there is a check box in the X-Plane 11 joystick assignment for the throttles, "Throttles are CH Products Throttle Quadrant." If I check this without the reverse thrust key assignment, reverse thrust is automatically engaged if I pull the power levers back beyond the detente built into these throttle levers. This method is more realistic but it is difficult to pull the power back to the minimum for landing without accidentally engaging reverse thrust!

3. There is a lua script, natural_reversers.lua that enables fine tuning a lever, even if not a CH Throttle. I had the same problem with his as with #2 though.

It's great that you are studying as much as possible about the Avanti. I do this with all the aircraft I fly and find it half the fun of flying in the simulator. I downloaded the full pilot owners handbook from here. It costs $25 for an annual subscription but I think well worth it, even for one manual. Having said that, I managed to download all my other handbooks for free.

I hope this helps!

Kor

[korkiley]

Chris, I should warn you that the POH from AVIALOGS is a 1992 edition so it is not for the Avanti II, just he regular Avanti. I don't think there are any major differences though--I hope : )

[ilias.tselios]

On 1/14/2018 at 4:12 AM, RoyW said:

Ilias,
Still no click region for yokes - showing click regions displays nothing in the top left area of PFD - strange because all else seems normal. Also, power levers have reverse region, but do not move into that region. Is reverse or beta modeled?

Reverse region, as you can see at the labeling (MAX REV). In the actual plane the power levers stop at IDLE, and then you lift them to go into reverse. Here you can use the same button/command as in jet aircrafts and add thrust. The levers are animated to go backwards in X-Plane.

I'm waiting a set of new manipulators to be available to make for them too (as is for condition levers, also update them), so you can operate them with the mouse...though I found it a bit troublesome to do it while trying to control the aircraft (that's my reasoning not put any manipulator on throttles yet...except the Go Around button!).

[ilias.tselios]

The best available info you can find in the net (and I have searched A LOT!) is this: http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/PIAGGIO/AVANTI.html 

 

[korkiley]

1 hour ago, airfighter said:

The best available info you can find in the net (and I have searched A LOT!) is this: http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/PIAGGIO/AVANTI.html 

 

Smartcockpit contains a lot of technical information that would be a great resource for you as the designer of the simulation. But for flying the plane it doesn't have the kind of stuff that I always look for and is always contained in the Pilot Operating Handbook. That document is not included on smartcockpit. On the other hand, I found the P180 Avanti FMS 3000 Guide to be very useful.

The Avanti's POH is the most thorough that I have seen and includes all the normal, emergency operations and many, many pages of performance tables that will guide a pilot in how to fly the aircraft most efficiently and safely.

[ilias.tselios]

6 hours ago, korkiley said:

Smartcockpit contains a lot of technical information that would be a great resource for you as the designer of the simulation. But for flying the plane it doesn't have the kind of stuff that I always look for and is always contained in the Pilot Operating Handbook. That document is not included on smartcockpit. On the other hand, I found the P180 Avanti FMS 3000 Guide to be very useful.

The Avanti's POH is the most thorough that I have seen and includes all the normal, emergency operations and many, many pages of performance tables that will guide a pilot in how to fly the aircraft most efficiently and safely.

I agree, though the Avanti I is quite similar as flight machine with Avanti II, but the cockpit differences are substantial to differentiate the operations quite a bit. 

[ryanbatc]

Any USA registrations for this addon yet?

Also, is there a chance to get a glass-like texture for the windows in external view?  With HDR I'm not really seeing any texture... it looks like there are no windows

Thanks for v2!

38864827365_d111fac85e_o by ryan b, on Flickr

[ilias.tselios]

17 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

Any USA registrations for this addon yet?

Also, is there a chance to get a glass-like texture for the windows in external view?  With HDR I'm not really seeing any texture... it looks like there are no windows

Thanks for v2!

I have made a painkit available, if anyone wants to do extra liveries. I have no time to tackle that myself, moreover when I'm planning, sometime in the future, to do a completely new external 3D model.

Anyway, if you have a specific plane in mind, post it here and I'll see what I can do. If you only want the Reg No to be changed, tell me what you want and I will change it. That's easy.

The glass is there, not so obvious though. From some angles you can see it, but needs some love in the next (2.1.1) update. 

[dirt_mcgirt]

Hey, I'd really like to try this plane, but I get the following error message from the installer:

"unable to download: component file version does not match"

Was I supposed to download the xplane 9 version and upgrade it?  This seems like a good x-aviation installer, I don't understand.  Running 11.11r2 on Mac OS.

 

thanks! 

-- Dirt

[ilias.tselios]

Hey, I'd really like to try this plane, but I get the following error message from the installer:

"unable to download: component file version does not match"

Was I supposed to download the xplane 9 version and upgrade it?  This seems like a good x-aviation installer, I don't understand.  Running 11.11r2 on Mac OS.

 

thanks! 

-- Dirt

You should just run the installer from the download section.

Problem noted, will try to fix it as soon as possible.

[dirt_mcgirt]

I think I did run the installer that was available in the downloads section. It ran an X-aviation script and asked for my x-plane directory. It downloaded the plane, but gave me the error message at the end. I’ve tried it multiple times...

Thanks!

—dirt

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[ryanbatc]

On 1/19/2018 at 6:38 AM, airfighter said:

I have made a painkit available, if anyone wants to do extra liveries. I have no time to tackle that myself, moreover when I'm planning, sometime in the future, to do a completely new external 3D model.

Anyway, if you have a specific plane in mind, post it here and I'll see what I can do. If you only want the Reg No to be changed, tell me what you want and I will change it. That's easy.

The glass is there, not so obvious though. From some angles you can see it, but needs some love in the next (2.1.1) update. 

N481BR - google's image search

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1920&bih=961&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=oCVmWp2ZCI7ojwOrr4KgBg&q=n481br&oq=n481br&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i24k1.12214.12214.0.12372.1.1.0.0.0.0.106.106.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.106....0.XuxXECfUyS0#imgrc=_

If you don't have time, maybe someone like Cessnarox could do it

[ilias.tselios]

7 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

N481BR - google's image search

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1920&bih=961&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=oCVmWp2ZCI7ojwOrr4KgBg&q=n481br&oq=n481br&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i24k1.12214.12214.0.12372.1.1.0.0.0.0.106.106.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.106....0.XuxXECfUyS0#imgrc=_

If you don't have time, maybe someone like Cessnarox could do it

The problems with liveries are that, first main focus is, in my limited time, aircraft systems simulation, then build a new 3D object with new texture mapping, and second there was not a paintkit to start from, and the existed livery was "heavily painted" with a lot of "effects", so is very hard to be used to build new liveries. 

Given that, I started slowly building a new paintkit, while keeping the same texture map layout. It will be much more clean, to allow painters to add their own grunge. The aircraft is back in the factory (literally the image is from Villanova D'Albegna airport, Piaggio's base) and the primer paint for the fuselage is already on! 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by airfighter

[dirt_mcgirt]

Referring to my problem above, maybe the issue is with Gizmo? The log has some errors -- attached:

 

"debug: 4969.528: Firmware v17.08.08.0320
debug: 4969.532: X-Plugins OBJ8 Loader v15.01.11
debug: 4969.711: * gxt.refresh()..
debug: 4969.713: gxt: AutoLoading..
debug: 4969.716:   gxt.load: Console
debug: 4969.716:   gxt.load: ToolTray
debug: 4969.717:   gxt.load: HotFix
debug: 4969.717:   gxt.load: Mute
debug: 4969.718:   gxt.load: Preferences
debug: 4969.718:   gxt.load: RebootButton
debug: 4969.718:   gxt.load: GateKeeper
debug: 4969.719: X-Aviation Licensing: Load license..
debug: 4969.721: X-Aviation Licensing: License is valid.
debug: 4970.132:   gxt.load: MAXX_RWC
debug: 4970.133:   gxt.load: Shell
debug: 4970.137: gxt: Completed AutoLoad.
debug: 4970.137: X-Aviation Licensing: End User.
debug: 4970.137: Not a Verified X-A Developer. I cannot load your scripts. Sorry.
debug: 4989.151: --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- ---
debug: 4989.151: --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- ---"

 

would that be why I can't install the P180?

 

-- Dirt

[ilias.tselios]

There is a Mac OS installation bug. Cameron is looking at it and will be fixed as soon as possible.

[dirt_mcgirt]

Ok thanks!

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[Chris Beckett]

I am not sure how accurately prop sync is modeled on this aircraft, but I am wondering about the capabilities of the real world aircraft (and how accurately this aircraft does actually model it).

In master/slave prop sync systems, it is recommended that prop sync is off during takeoff and landing, and that you need to turn prop sync on and off whenever changing the RPM of the engines. I found a forum discussion related to newer Beechcraft aircraft that suggested that newer prop sync systems are no longer master/slave, can be enabled during takeoff/landing and do not need to be turned on and off on every RPM change. I guess I am wondering whether the Avanti II uses a master/slave prop sync or otherwise.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Chris Beckett

[ilias.tselios]

On 2/9/2018 at 10:35 PM, Chris Beckett said:

I am not sure how accurately prop sync is modeled on this aircraft, but I am wondering about the capabilities of the real world aircraft (and how accurately this aircraft does actually model it).

In master/slave prop sync systems, it is recommended that prop sync is off during takeoff and landing, and that you need to turn prop sync on and off whenever changing the RPM of the engines. I found a forum discussion related to newer Beechcraft aircraft that suggested that newer prop sync systems are no longer master/slave, can be enabled during takeoff/landing and do not need to be turned on and off on every RPM change. I guess I am wondering whether the Avanti II uses a master/slave prop sync or otherwise.

Propellers' modelling is currently off, and expect Austin to finalize the simulation, to jump in and fix it.

Prop sync or synchropahser in Avanti is a "meet-in-the-middle" system, meaning the slows the faster prop and speeds up the slower one to meet somewhere in the middle.