Emalice

I read your post carefully, and I also read all the subsequent ones, as I always do before I write something myself. Please do not ever question my honesty again, thank you. I really couldn't care less about your association with ixeg, or lack thereof. All I know is that you called "ridiculous" an attitude that you yourself have donned so many times (and for good reasons, that is not in question here). I was merely pointing out a contradiction that seems weird coming from you. If anything you should be congratulating Tom Knudsen for his integrity :-) As I said, you are questioning a person's choice to buy one version of a product that does not meet his expectations over having the patience to wait for a version he'd prefer, even though that version is still hypothetical.

If I may, it has been X-aviation's policy so far to never release a product before it was as perfect as technically possible. I even know of a project that was set back 6 months if not more because it did not meet expected standards (yes, Tom, I am looking at you). And that is entirely to your credit. Now, how can you call it ridiculous when a user decides to wait for a product to meet his own standards before buying it ? We, x-aviation customers, have been trained to being patient. As a result, don't be surprised if we don't rush into buying something. That being said, many congratulations to ixeg for the fantastic job. I am not too picky about nav data so it is a sure thing that I for one will buy this one upon release.

Makes one wonder... what, exactly ? Please, develop. I edited my previous post and removed the part about being a customer, not for the reason you mentionned, but because it was irrelevant and quite vain. However, as a customer, it is my prerogative, and mine alone, to decide how, what and when I want to buy something. Please notice that I am not complaining about LES's decision to not provide the manual as free download. I am argumenting against it, because I believe it doesn't make any sense, I am sure LES, or Cameron for that matter can argument back as to why it does make sense to them. This whole thing would have been resolved long ago with an argumented response, instead of a single slap on the wrist ("nope"). It's been a long time since I have been treated this way on a forum. I will not engage in a debate over the difference between a software publisher and a developper. All X-Aviation products that I have, even though they are made by different developpers, are of very good quality. The only other LES aircraft I have is the DC-3. I got it after reading some enthusiastic reviews about it, turns out I do not like it very much. In hindsight I would not have bought it. Since then, I like to make my own opinion about something before buying it. I thank AtomicFrawg for his videos, this is the kind of helpful informative input that will make for the lack of available manual. Let's leave it at that. E.

Yes, you are right, I could very well have. I never suggested otherwise. Have you ever been to a wine tasting ? Years of care went into the grapes growing and wine making process. Many people will just taste it and then f*ck off. Offering a taste of your product is in no way harming its reputation or quality, it is merely a part of what people call promotion. It is a fact that when time, effort and money went into making a product, you want to try and sell it as best as you can. Now it is my personnal opinion that someone (i.e. me) who is ready to read a 200+ pages manual has a genuine interest in the product. If indeed the aircraft is as good as you say, there is a strong chance I would go ahead and proceed to buying it. It is not 100%, so you are indeed taking a risk of giving out the manual for nothing, but have you weighed that risk against the potential benefit of selling more aircrafts ? Have you considered selling the manual for a nominal fee ? You probably have, but I maintain my position : my demand was polite and argumented, I expect a similar answer. Your single word rebuttal was not. I do not doubt that. But here again I only have your word for it. I am not saying you are lying, but as you are an interested party, your enthusiasm could cloud your judgment. The work in progress forum shows many beautiful pictures and many descriptions of some capabilities of the aircraft, which sparked my interest for it. In my very personal opinion, the preview video is nothing more than an animated photo gallery. So I have no way of knowing for sure if it is indeed as thorough as you say. That's all. E.

Thank you. Actually, English is my second language :-D E.

No, you don't, for at least two reasons : First, a car is a real object, not a simulation. There is, by definition, a gap in reality between the real object and the simulation of that object. I wish I could assess for myself the gap that exists between the real Saab340 and this simulation. It is true that I can go watch many videos about the real saab340, it will not give me any indication as to the level of simulation of the LES saab340. Second : when you want to buy a car, you can go to your shop and actually try the car, drive it around etc. No matter how much care was put into the making of the car, dealers will still let you drive it (and provide for the tear and wear costs associated) because they know that's the best way to sell it. About the digital product we are discussing here, there is no demo available, and the videos that were provided are not informative as to the depth of the simulation. The manual is therefore the most effective source of information I could think of. That is my logic explained to you, I hope it makes more sense now :-) I will watch your videos, hopefully they will contain the information I seek. If I make the decision of buying that aircraft based on your videos, I hope LES will thank you for taking care of their advertising for them :-D E.

Ok Cameron. Thank you for being sarcastic, that really helps me understand more about life. I will now retire to a buddhist temple and reflect upon my past mistakes... Maybe I should have written to my grandmother more often. To be honest, I am really cross right now. I believe my demand was argumented enough and that it was obvious my wanting the manual was not just to read it and then f*ck off, but to make an informed decision about whether or not i'd buy the saab340. So it's a no. Fine. I sincerely hope some people will post good videos sometime soon (not just videos with doors opening and cheesy music), maybe that will help me make the decision. However I really think that I deserved more than "nope" and sarcasm. E.

As I have said in previous posts in this thread, my reason for hoping to get the manuals is not because I am worried about the quality of the manuals, but because I am worried about the quality of the product as a whole. I am really reluctant to spend $54 just out of good faith. Sure, I hear many people saying that "i won't regret it", but how do they know ? How do they know what I am after in a sim plane ? Only I can decide that. The manual is the best way, short of buying the whole thing, to get intimate knowledge of the aircraft. It is not just a matter of whether the manual is owrth more than a "free download". The manual alone is not of much help to anyone if you don't then buy the whole aircraft. Surely, some people here do realize that giving people access to the manuals is an incentive to buy the aircraft. E.

Hi. Well, that's a bit short. E.

But again, comparing my manuals folder on my CRJ install and what is available from http://www.jrollon.com/CRJ.html I see that what was left out were the "remote-cdu-howto", the 6 pages "addendum" and the 25 pages "pilot-handbook". The latter contains checklists, some charts and the performance data. Just in an effort to help me in the future, is that then what your refer to as being "the primary manual" and "the third and more important manual" ? If so, I'll be more than content with any non-primary and less important manuals for the saab340. Once you are done considering, of course :-) E.

Ok, this is starting to sound like a pointless argument, but I hate being told I'm wrong when I'm not :-P . I have to apologize as I don't know what you call the "primary manual". What I do know is that I just went to Javier's personnal website (http://www.jrollon.com/CRJ.html) and downloaded a 150 pages manual for the CRJ200, detailing cockpit layout and systems, as well as a 54 pages long tutorial, detailing procedures. Those two manuals are the same I downloaded a long time ago as I was considering buying that aircraft. What really matters here is that being able to read those manuals gives the potential buyer a full sense of the depth of simulation of systems, procedures, elements of the cockpit that are functional rather than just painted (I do hate those buttons that cannot be clicked). I hope you can be sensitive to those arguments, they are quite an important part of why we fly simulations. Thank you again. E.

Jrollon.com DID have the manuals for the CRJ, i know because I spent 3 weeks reading those before buying the aircraft. So, the reason why i'd love a chance to look at the manual before buying is not to assess the quality of said manual. I have no doubt that they are very well made and to the point and I am actually counting on that: unless there is a demo version around, reading the manual is the best way of knowing what you're in for. Let's say that the information given about the aircraft on the product page is a good flyer. Now that I am interested I want to know more, the manual would make a great brochure. Thank you for considering it. E.

Hi. Ok, the Saab 340 looks like a fantastic piece of work as well as being a wonderful aircraft. I am very seriously considering buying it. As a seasoned customer however, I like to get a precise idea of what it is I am getting before I proceed with the purchase, especially in that price range. To that intent, can the manuals be made available for free download somewhere ? I know that reading the CRJ200 manual from Javier's website is what made me go ahead and buy the aircraft. I am not sure I would have spent that much on an aircraft just from the promotional videos* which, beautiful as they may be, are really not very informative. Thank you in advance. E. * by the way, what is it with the take command series promotional videos and the cheap dance music ;-D

Mike, I know where you live. You'll have plenty of time to polish gold bars from your hopsital bed ;-) (er, let me stress out that this is a humourous post and does not constitute a real life threat to Mike's health and integrity in any way) (besides, i don't really know where he lives) (well, maybe someone knows his address ?) T.

Gee, and it's only Monday... Poor guy. He has my unconditional admiration.

Oh, Cameron, come on... Don't tell me you didn't read the two posts preceding mine ??? (mike10 and meshboy) By the humourous tone of Tom's reply, I can tell he did :-)

So, why is it not out yet ? E.

Guys, you're kidding me right? Releasing the crj while I'm away on holiday and 6000 miles from my computer? Really? Oh, cruel irony ;-)

Also, JetBlue has a fleet of A32X aircrafts. I guess it is not unusual even for american companies to buy from Airbus.

So, I would have written a long post to say how enthusiastic and thrilled I am that Moo 1.5 is finally out, with great details about what makes it so great and how it was so much worth the wait, you know and all, but I can't. I can't, because I am on short finals and it's time to turn off the AP. Just this : thank you guys. Oh, and this also : so, when will v2 be released ? :-D (juuust kidding) T.

Oh, hey, I wasn't being sarcastic or anything. I am sure you put all your efforts and your heart in this update. This thread only is proof enough. It's just that i don't want to get too excited over the moo 1.5 coming out anytime soon, as there may well be another mountain to climb before that. T.

This is super exciting news. However, I can't beat this "i'll believe it when I see it" feeling, but hey, Tom, I'm sure you're working as hard as you can. Praises to your tenacity. T.

Yay !

And for android users, there is a wonderful little app called "X-Plane to GPS", it costs a couple bucks and will use positionning info from Xplane instead of the device's GPS. You can then use any mapping system (e.g. google earth...) and see your position live. I've used this app for some time now and it works well. Link : http://www.appropel.com/ T.

As far as my knowledge of IFR and procedures goes (which is not much, I conceed), you can do a fair amount of that in Xplane as it is, well, provided of course you have a few third-party plugins, standalone (XFMC/UFMC) or embedded in a plane (CRJ, 777...). So what do you feel is missing from the current state of things ? Is the "change in the infrastructure of navdata" going to bring new features to the users directly, or will it make it easier for developpers to make "procedure" airplanes (which in turn is going to bring new features to the user, but indirectly) ? This is a very naive question, but the more I fly the more I love IFR, and I am very excited to think that the simulation can still go deeper in that area. Thanks, Tristan.