JGregory Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) I would also like to see screenshots of your frame rates when this issue occurs. Edited January 16, 2016 by JGregory Quote
MartinJ Posted January 16, 2016 Author Report Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) @Radek: I can pretty much confirm all of your sightings. I've just did some more testing and here are some points I noticed: - start of the left engine- left CL between min and max, right CL at fuel off- no jitter no matter if I move just the left or just the right throttle or both throttles at a time- with the left engine running and the right engine stopped I moved the right CL between min and max- again no jitter at all- shutdown of the left engine -> left CL to fuel off- right CL to start- start of the right engine- right CL between min and max- right throttle starts jittering when moved forward of ground idle- no jittering of the left throttle- left CL between min and max with the left engine still stopped- again only the right throttle is affected- both CL to fuel off the jitter won't reappear until you move PL back to GND IDLE and wait for the engine to spool down to idle speed (or very close to it) Confirmed. Note that the frame rate was around 40 fps all the time. Edited January 16, 2016 by MartinJ 1 Quote
JGregory Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 OK, starting to see a possible trend here.... 1.) This only happens with the right throttle lever. 2.) This problem is dependent on the position of the right condition lever... all is OK if right CL is below MIN? Everyone please confirm. Note: You should be able to test this without starting the engines. Quote
MartinJ Posted January 16, 2016 Author Report Posted January 16, 2016 Regarding your statement #2 please see my previous post - with the left engine running and the right engine stopped I moved the right CL between min and max- again no jitter at all and - start of the right engine- right CL between min and max- right throttle starts jittering when moved forward of ground idle So at least here the right engine must be up and running to get the error. Quote
mgeiss Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 I need to test if the issue is present when the PL is below min. It's definitely gone when applyig normal climb/cruise power. Quote
MartinJ Posted January 16, 2016 Author Report Posted January 16, 2016 all is OK if right CL is below MIN? Confirmed. Quote
JGregory Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 I need to test if the issue is present when the PL is below min. It's definitely gone when applyig normal climb/cruise power.I assume you mean condition lever? There is no MIN on the PL. Quote
JGregory Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 So at least here the right engine must be up and running to get the error.So... you have NO issues when the engines are not running, correct? Quote
mgeiss Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 Sorry, I misread that and in my head MIN got PL -> ground idle. I can now confirm that the problem is not present with the CL below min. Quote
MartinJ Posted January 16, 2016 Author Report Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) So... you have NO issues when the engines are not running, correct? Correct. By the way I'm currently flying the Saab in X-Plane. It is such a great plane! I may add that the right engine must be running. The status of the left engine is irrelevant. Edited January 16, 2016 by MartinJ Quote
JGregory Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 OK, I have finally been able to reproduce this problem using my Saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant. This means I can start to diagnose the issue. At this point I have absolutely no idea why this is occurring. I also can not make any promises as to when we may have an answer. Thank you all for your input. I will keep you posted. BTW... because of the previous report from mgeiss, if anyone is still using 10.36 or earlier, and has hardware they are using with the Saab, I would appreciate it if you could test the throttles for this same problem and report back here. Quote
MH1212 Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 I do have the same problem as described with my X52 Pro (Windows 10, XP10.42). I "solved" my problem with a FlyWithLua script: I read the value from the throttle axis and pass it through to "sim/cockpit2/engine/actuators/throttle_ratio_all". It works without any jitters or other problems. Off topic, but I use the same technique for the Condition levers with: "LES/saab/CL/manip_common", for which I use another axis... Maybe it helps others until a solution is found. The challenge to fly this wonderful airplane is big enough without having to fight my joystick :-) Quote
MartinJ Posted January 16, 2016 Author Report Posted January 16, 2016 Would you mind sharing your file with the community? Quote
JGregory Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 I do have the same problem as described with my X52 Pro (Windows 10, XP10.42). I "solved" my problem with a FlyWithLua script: I read the value from the throttle axis and pass it through to "sim/cockpit2/engine/actuators/throttle_ratio_all". It works without any jitters or other problems. Off topic, but I use the same technique for the Condition levers with: "LES/saab/CL/manip_common", for which I use another axis... Maybe it helps others until a solution is found. The challenge to fly this wonderful airplane is big enough without having to fight my joystick :-)You read the value from the throttle axis how? Are you talking about the joystick axis? Which axis are you reading? This (FWL) script would "force" the user to control both throttles from one input. It may be a workaround for now, but definitely not a very good solution Quote
JGregory Posted January 16, 2016 Report Posted January 16, 2016 I think I have found the problem, but I need to discuss this with Laminar first. I will let you guys know as soon as I have a firm answer. 1 Quote
MartinJ Posted January 17, 2016 Author Report Posted January 17, 2016 That's great news. Thanks for your efforts. Quote
MH1212 Posted January 17, 2016 Report Posted January 17, 2016 You read the value from the throttle axis how? Are you talking about the joystick axis? Which axis are you reading? This (FWL) script would "force" the user to control both throttles from one input. It may be a workaround for now, but definitely not a very good solution Normally this should not be necessary, so yes it is a workaround (it should be possible to use separate axis if you have a left and right throttle -> you just have to find the right dataref to bind to). So it is temporary, although I also use this technique to dampen the response curve of the left and right toe brake (something XP offers for other axis but not for the brakes). I use a lua file to manage the axis and button setting for all planes (so no separate lua file for this), but the essential lines are these: local axisValues = dataref_table("sim/joystick/joystick_axis_values")local cl_axis = 34local cl_val = 0local throt_axis = 36local throt_val = 0 function Saab_axis()-- Condition Levercl_val=axisValues[cl_axis]set("LES/saab/CL/manip_common",cl_val)-- Throttle: axis is reversedthrot_val=1-axisValues[throt_axis]set("sim/cockpit2/engine/actuators/throttle_ratio_all",throt_val)end set_axis_assignment( 34, "none", "normal" )set_axis_assignment( 36, "none", "normal" )do_every_frame("Saab_axis()") Quite simple... As you can see I use axis 34 and 36 (=throttle) of my joystick -> you can find the axis assignments in the file "initial_assignments.txt" in the FlyWithLua folder. NB: the fact that this works also suggests that there is nothing wrong with the code of the plugin (the datarefs work OK), but that is is something in the communication between X-Plane and the plugin... Good luck! Cheers, Matthijs Quote
JGregory Posted January 17, 2016 Report Posted January 17, 2016 FYI to all involved..... after researching and diagnosing the issue with the throttles, I don't believe that Matthijs' script will solve the problem. It turns out that the issue has nothing to do with the joystick axis values at all. Quote
MartinJ Posted January 17, 2016 Author Report Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the info Jim. Sounds like you're making some good progress. Any news on why this issue happens? Edited January 17, 2016 by MartinJ Quote
JGregory Posted January 17, 2016 Report Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Any news on why this issue happens?I don't want to make any claims until I confirm with Laminar. X-Plane is writing to a DataRef when I don't believe it should be. As of now I think this may be related to the new engine code that Austin implemented (for the PT6) back in 10.40. Edited January 20, 2016 by JGregory Quote
MartinJ Posted January 18, 2016 Author Report Posted January 18, 2016 Thanks for the info Jim. When you're dealing with the issue please keep in mind that although it's almost 99% the right throttle which is affected there're a few situations when the left throttle jumps to full reverse. It's been just yesterday that I observed such a situation. Even though I can't reproduce it I thought it's worth mentioning... Quote
JGregory Posted January 18, 2016 Report Posted January 18, 2016 Martin, That is correct.. the problem exists for both axes. Quote
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