Leading Edge Simulations Saab 340A Experience

[canox]

Yea its very nice.  Switzerland is amazing.. tons cities beside lakes surrounded by mountains.  The Lugano approach isnt too tough until the last dive into the runway.. you cant trust the GS indicator or PAPI lights either. Plus there is a soccer field just before the runway so I try not to buzz those guys too badly. Landing with 35 flaps is harder to land than 20 I think.. it really sinks quickly.

 

Ahh I recorded a good approach live with FRAPS but my video only lasted 20 seconds or something... I saved the replay so I will try to do a commentary or something (but ugh there will be no sound)

Oh well.. heres a picture at least

 

Edited January 13, 2014 by canox

[arb65912]

VERY nice picture, love it.

 

I will definitely get back to Lugano and other Switzerland airports, I agree , the scenery is amazing , especially with clouds. 

I landed at Lugano once but was too high, and went around, I am definitely going back there after I finish successfully my current "endorsement"

 

I was simply flying  headings listed on APP Plate but that is very wrong, with the wind I had set ( and any time also) I supposed to be TRACKING from and to EN NDB.

I need to do more practicing and then I will post here.

Things have to be done right, right? 

 

 On most of my flights I use real weather unless I want to try something in particular, like the described above NDB RWY 26 APPR at YMEN.

 

Glad to hear you experimented with FRAPS, post the silent video or record one live, even more fun, just like in real life.

Whatever you record just post here, I will love to see it, do not worry, I will not judge anything, I make tons of mistakes but I am also learning so it is all good.

 

I have made something else but it is NOT done yet. I created my new , normal, Personal Checklist for LES Saab 340A in a MS Word format using Open Office.

Then I converted the document to PDF format and sent it to Dropbox.

It enabled me to open the file in Foreflight.

I made letters big so I can see it.

 

The list is NOT complete and needs to be corrected, I will get in touch with the SAAB real world pilot to edit it and post here for all interested.

I had to do it after Jim's confirmation about no changes to the SAAB electronic checklist in the upcoming update.

There were too important items missed so I decided to go for it.

 

That is is for now.

I will be trying to get better with TRACKING , not just flying headings from APP plate.

 

Thanks for sharing your comments and experiences, I wish more SAAB enthusiasts posted their experiences here, it is such a cool plane to fly.

 

Till next time and shoot these videos, Canox.  Cheers, AJ 

 

 

 

 

[arb65912]

Hello again Gentlemen,

 

I have been busy with learning how to fly the YMEN NDB RWY 26 APP  with TRACKING rather than flying headings from approach plate.

 

See the videos below.

 

First video, just an approach, trying to track, not easy at all with the wind and OEI.

 

[arb65912]

The video below shows the Circle To Land part.

 

[arb65912]

I did not like Circle To Land in the last veideo so I practiced more and the one below is much better in my opinion.

 

[arb65912]

Finally the otside view, looks cool to me with One Engine Inoperative OEI.

 

[arb65912]

A little better tracking and a little bit more better tracking.

I had a LOT of fun. Shortly I will decide what I will fly and share here as my neverending LES Saab340A experience.

 

I will definitely try the Logano mentioned in the reply above from Canox but I have also many other ideas.

 

I think am becomoing a Saaboholic       Cheers, AJ

 

 

[canox]

Hey man great vids.  You land the SAAB with one engine better than I can with two.

 

If you try Lugano approach from the NW direction be advised I was having trouble capturing the first VOR track (on my flight from Zurich.) It didnt capture until I was already 10km past where I was supposed to turn into it.  Otherwise all the VORs published on the approach plate for LSZA worked fine.  (Oops I think you need to be at 20k to capture it, I was only at 15k)

I found a REAL video of the approach into Lugano in a SAAB 2000.  Its cool he goes over the same approach plate... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvM3IX4YhJc

 

 

Please post any other cool ideas or interesting approaches for the SAAB!

Edited January 17, 2014 by canox

[arb65912]

Thanks Canox.  

 

It was not meant as any kind of show off or competiotion, I just tried to to the best I could. Rudder is a must but since it is applied, everything is pretty much straighthforward.  Give it a try, you will be surprised.

 

Thank you for the advise and the great video, I better get prepared for that one. I will try to fly it as you , from Zurich and see how it goes. Will try tomorrow with real weather.

 

Please post any other cool ideas or interesting approaches for the SAAB!

 

 

You can be sure I will, I have already many things planned I want to try, I will fly them, make videos and post here.

 

Please, do the same so we can fly each other's finds.    Cheers, AJ

[canox]

Here we go.. circle approach Rwy 19 @ Lugano.  Bumpy landing plus bonus power failure after touchdown? Dunno what caused that..

 

Sry you can hardly hear me

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ4nBmq70Z4&feature=youtu.be

[arb65912]

Hey Canox.     Great video, thanks, watched 3 times.   Great good job. Your descend was nice, my first attempt was rough, did not crash but descended like I stalled. :lol:

 

I have few questions for you, just curious.

 

1. I have seen in your video that CL Condition Lever was in MAX position, did you just changed it before the approach or fly with that setting all flight?

The reason I am asking is because the real life F/O says to move CL from the MAX down to get about 1230 Prop RPM.

I believe that one could fly with CL to the MAX all the time , just wanted to know what you think.

 

2. I have my AIR COND knobs set at around 4.5 and I get the temperature around 20+ Celsius.

I have noticed your AIR COND knobs were set around 1.5 but the temperature was still in a nice range.

Was it because OAT was higher?

 

3. Are you sing Head Tracking software?

It looked like you were using mouse for view changes.

I found it very useful to assign my views to a joke buttons ( main forward from cockpit and further out from the cockpit to see all cabin) and keyboard keys.

See my video, when I am ready just for flight I hit button on the joke, when I need different views , I hit one of the numeric pad keys.

I am wondering what setup you use.

 

Voice level in video, I had to experiment with that a bit while editing videos.

I have my master volume set to 50% and SAAB volume sliders set to different settings, see attached.

That combination allows me to hear ATC when present, have a decent but not too loud AND when I edit the videos my voice can be heard.

Setting this every time I start SAAB is a PITA , I asked Jim if he could make settings stay each time I load SAAB but he did not give a definite yes or no, I expect it will be a no when the new release comes up.

 

 

Your power failure on touchdown can be easily fixed.

I had the same problem, when you touchdown, do not move PL as fast as you did in the video.

Do it slowly but consistently and you will end up in a  nice Beta range without power failure.

I was brought up in the support forums and I am sure that is the way to do it.

Give it a try and see how it goes.

 

Last night, I made a quick flight to Lugano and tried LOC HOTEL RWY01, I almost crashed... :lol:

Unfortunately  XP database is using IGS frequency 111.50 , not the published LOC freq 108.90

 

OK, now going to fly again that great approach you came up with. Lots of fun.   Till next time. Cheers, AJ

 

[canox]

Hey thanks for watching! Ill try to make some better ones in the future, with fixed sound etc.

 

1. Condition levers I think I put them MAX just before I started the video.. I did the approach and descent check ahead of time in prep for landing on RWY 01 but I decided to circle to RWY 19.

I usually put them 1350 for climb and 1250 for cruise.. I guess I could have waited to advance them to MAX but I felt busy enough with the Prop sync, Autocoarsen and CTOT settings plus trying to fly the plane.  I try to have only those three things remaining on final.  Hopefully having CL on MAX for 5-7 minutes didnt damage my engines too much.

 

2. Hmm maybe.. I think the temp was default around 12C OAT.. I never mess with the AC knobs other than turning the Recirc fan on.  I think the 'Auto' setting takes care of the cabin temperature?

 

3. Yea I just use my mouse to look around.  I dunno I like it this way. I can whip my head around the cockpit and quickly click buttons.  I also have a hatswitch on my joystick for views.. but I prefer the mouse because its more fluid and immersive.  Id like TrackIR but im waiting for something like Oculus Rift     For games like War Thunder I even assign throttle control to my mouse..  DCS Blackshark is hardest to play because I cant look around quickly, need both hands HOTAS.

 

 

Wow awesome thanks for the diagnosis on my power failure.. you have a keen eye for all my flying details!  I do remember slamming the throttle back pretty quick on that landing, that must have done it.  Now I know thx!

And you are right about the LOC freq.. I forgot about that I should have warned you haha.  

 

Good luck and happy flying!  If you manage the landing plz make a nice vid or at least post your approach setup..flaps/speed/tracks etc and we can compare.

[arb65912]

Hey Canox!

 

It was a pleasure to watch your video, I could compare it to my flying setup. Make as many as you feel like, I will watch them all, guaranteed.

 

1. I will also change the way with the CL the way you do it, gives me a better climb rate, I like that

 

2. You are right, never thought about it, AC switches are not programmed to move to Manual , they are AUTO all the time, learned something, thanks.

 

3. I see about moving around the cockpit using mouse, hey, personal preference, as long as it makes you comfortable, you doing it very well anyway.

  Just checked Oculus Rift , WOW!   Yes, maybe one day, wonder how it could be used in XP, interesting.

 

Did you figure out power failure? Hope it works fine now. I was doing the same , slamming throttle back until I realized that it was wrong.

 

I am en-route now for a second landing this time like your CTL RWY 19.

 

Got a video, will make another one but gotta leave for tonight so I will post everything tomorrow morning.

 

I am very happy you joined my LES Saab340A challenge, we will have some nice flights, will learn more and have fun. Thanks.  Till next time.   Cheers, AJ

[arb65912]

OK, Sunday morning, videos processed.

 

Just noticed that we are really not allowed to fly these approaches as they are for Category A and B Aircraft only.

 

But we want to have FUN so why not?

 

First video, self explanatory , just wanted to add that I had Gear Down and 2 notches of flaps before starting the descend. I landed straight in RWY01

 

[arb65912]

Second video, I dared to attempt CTL on RWY 19.

 

It worked but many things I did wrong, warnings , descended too low etc.

 

BTW, I wonder if there is a way to silence the " sink rate " warning, in this case , like straight in RWY01, the descend rate has to be high.

 

Maybe it should be high to a certain height and then shallower, I do not know, interesting though.

 

I will come up with some new flight for the next weekend.

 

Enjoy!   Cheers, AJ

 

[canox]

Hey thanks for the videos man.  Great landings actually...

I notice your touch down speed is much quicker than mine.  Was this just for this approach or..?  I try to touch down at like 115-100, maybe thats too slow.

I guess its the difference between 'floating' my plane onto the runway or 'flying' it INTO the runway.  Know what I mean?  Tell me what you think and what would be proper way to do it.  

 

Anyways for RWY 01 to get down low quickly I set IAS at 120 and Flight Idle.. let it take me to about 3nm from the LOC and then adjust from there.  I dont use the GS..well Im not locked into it.  I get some 'terrain' warnings but its nothing to worry about. Im always usually below the glideslope until the end of the descent...

 

Category A and B? Oops.. time to do some more reading haha.  I wish more people would post! Its great to see and discuss how other pilots fly this plane

I will also be looking for some new fun approaches for the SAAB, take care!

[arb65912]

Thanks Canox, I did not like my landings but they were faster because I was not using full flaps, just 20 deg. I think that that would be the special case when I should anyway but remember what the real life piulot said about 20 deg flaps?

It is on purpose, if you need a missed approach, you want to have that speed, just guessing here.

 

Yeah, I know what you mean about floating versus flying-into, I think, as most of the approaches, the best would to be somewhere in the middle.

I did not hand fly SAAB long enough to really get a feel for it, need more no autopilot flights.

 

I think, during the week, I will just try to fly without autopilot and see how the plane handles.

 

Yes, it would be great to see other pilots to join the discussion but, two is better than one and one is better than none.

 

OK, take care and till next time. Cheers, AJ

[canox]

Hey AJ, I think youre right somewhere in the middle is best.  I have been using 20 flaps.. 120 IAS and -200FPM for my touchdowns this week. Doesnt feel like Im forcing it down and once Im stable it seems to just fly in nicely.  I think its OK, except a little bounce on the front gear sometimes

 

My approach of choice has been hand flying the Madeira RWY 05 visual approach, from the co-pilot seat!

I got the scenery (its great) from http://www.xpfr.org/  and it includes the charts in the download.

I recorded some video so Ill be sure to post them once they are processed.

[canox]

One inside live.. one outside replay.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27QNi2LNkC0

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXuoVhUiaMw

 

 

Also found another cool real life SAAB 340 video.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yHZbgYsIN4

You can watch the pilot start the plane up.. its just like in XPlane lol.  All the sounds are perfect, engines reverbing as it gets close the the ground.  It even has that random hydraulic sound that I hear sometimes..

Edited January 21, 2014 by canox

[arb65912]

Hey Canox,

 

Awesome videos, keep them coming. I am jealous now because when I fly too long, I am unable to make a video or reply from the outside view.

Just hoping that the promised update will materialize one day in 2014.

 

My real life SAAB "Instructor"  will take a look at my checklists and it will have the information on the speeds and flaps.

I think, you are much better now with 20 deg flaps and higher final approach speeds and touchdown.

Looks very smooth on the video.

 

You flew manually, right? yes, you did. It is not easy, I need a LOT of practice to get all these flaps, gear, speed, descend rate and other things synced.

They say practice makes perfect, I agree, it will be a while but it will come.

 

Watched both of your videos couple times, yes, I am nuts. lol,lol,lol

 

I started flying back on FSE , you that one right? It gives you some purpose ( money) of flying and I think it is pretty cool to pick up assignments, I am not good at that but I will try , it is fun.

I will fly the Madeira RWY05 visual approach maybe even tonight  ( took a day off because of snow), looks like a lot of fun.

You flew it from the copilot seat, man THAT is tough but you did great.

 

Where do you get music for the second video, I know, no sound in playback from recording, sucks but I guess a trade off for a great plane, it was talked about it in support forums.

Do you know how youtube takes the sound tracks copyrights?

You gotta have the sound it these replays , like in yours, silent video is like in mute films years ago..lolo,lol  not fun at all.

 

Madeira scenery, I will try first with the left over one from the VA I was a member of and we compare.

If the downloaded one is nicer, I will go for it, I will test it anyway and post here.

 

Cool video on real life SAAB 340, I will be watching it couple times probably, nice catch, keep them coming.

Yes, LES Team did a great job on the SAAB, that is for sure.

 

When my real life "Instructor" gets back with me, I will post here about the proper ( or preferred by him) timing for CTOT, AUTOCOARSEN, flaps and gear down.

I do not know what is the proper sequence here.

 

What is your water reflection set to in XP? Looks really nice.

 

OK, going to do my FSE flight now, watch the real life SAAB video, download the scenery to test for Madeira and later on maybe try the visual approach for RWY05 BUT it will be from the LP side.

 

Love this thread, wish more guys join our challenges but hey, better two than one.        Cheers, AJ

[canox]

Hey, yea I had to set my texture graphics to 'High' to be able to fly the SAAB smoothly, but its not too bad.

 

Glad you watched them heh, thats what they are for.

Ive heard of FSE but I havnt tried it yet.

 

Snow day? I wish that existed where I live...

My landing setup sequence was a bit messed up during the video.. I was doing touch and gos so not everything was set properly at the end woops.  My HP valves and Prop sync werent engaged lol.

 

Water reflection is on Advanced.

 

Haha I chose the co-pilot side for Madeira because I thought it would be easier to see out the right window for that long sweeping right turn.

[arb65912]

Texture resolution Very High here, changed water reflection to advanced.  Will test with these settings and report.

 

You should have a lot of snow where you are at, do you mean it is a normal snow day there? Just curious.

.

Copilot selection, lol,lol,lo,. that was a good one, lol.

 

BTW, did you read what Jim said in SAAB support forums about warnings and GPWS?

I think, most of the time it is my fault, read the post there.   http://forums.x-pilot.com/topic/6373-master-alarm-and-warnings/

 

Going to fly around Madeira a bit and see how it goes.  CYA.  Cheers, AJ 

 

 

[canox]

So much snow.  I mean no matter how cold or how much snow.. the show must go on lol. I understand some cities have a harder time dealing with snow hehe.

 

Yea I saw that thread.  Its funny that Sukoi_Fan pointed out the exact approach we were doing that might cause the warnings haha.  Like he said thats just the way the GS is set up at Lugano.

The 900FPM under 2500 AGL for the warning seems reasonable though.. you would be approaching the ground pretty quick.

 

Have fun! I installed New Zealand and some airports so I will try to find some good landing or flights suitable for our beloved SAAB.

[andydckent]

AJ,

 

I'd love to see a video of an attempt of the RWY 33 EGPB Sumburgh landing if you want another challange?  I've travelled on a FlyBe Saab 340 on that approach.  Very impressive!

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

Andy

Edited January 23, 2014 by andydckent

[arb65912]

Hey Canox,

Yea I saw that thread.  Its funny that Sukoi_Fan pointed out the exact approach we were doing that might cause the warnings haha.  Like he said thats just the way the GS is set up at Lugano.

The 900FPM under 2500 AGL for the warning seems reasonable though.. you would be approaching the ground pretty quick.

 

 

I agree, I think we will be OK with that, just need to stay 2500 AGL

 

Finally flew the Madeira, loved it, started with autopilot on and continued with hand flying only, made probably 5 approaches and then about 5 flying patterns, had a blast.

 

As you know from the thread in SAAB support forum, I can shoot the outside views videos now, great !!!!!

 

Our beloved Saab, YES, you are totally right, I am totally possessed especially NOW that I can shoot the outside views videos.  Awesome plane, we will have lots of fun. Have alreday many places to fly.

 

First video, first approach, not too bad for the first time.

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2014 by arb65912