Simulating equipment failures

[arb65912]

Hi LES Team, 

 

I was wondering, if there is any way to simulate failures in SAAB.

 

When I set the X-Plane failures, they blink as they were present but nothing happens.

 

I understand that it is because SAAB is "driven" by Gizmo, correct?

 

For example, I wanted to see what happens when both generators fail and I guess that the only way to do it is just to turn them off, correct?

 

Cheers, AJ 

[JGregory]

Hi LES Team, 

 

I was wondering, if there is any way to simulate failures in SAAB.

 

When I set the X-Plane failures, they blink as they were present but nothing happens.

 

I understand that it is because SAAB is "driven" by Gizmo, correct?

 

For example, I wanted to see what happens when both generators fail and I guess that the only way to do it is just to turn them off, correct?

 

Cheers, AJ 

AJ,

 

Many of the XP failures are tied into the Saab, but not all.   Simply using Gizmo has nothing to do with whether or not failures will work, it's a matter of how the XP failures are implemented in the code.  I don't believe the generator failures are tied in, per se.

[arb65912]

Hi Jim,

 

Fair enough, I understand now. 

 

I just checked , generator failure ( by turning them off manually)  results in  many failures.

 

Very interesting to experiment, I am having lots of fun, thank you for a quick response.

 

Cheers, AJ 

Edited January 7, 2014 by arb65912

[arb65912]

OK, I could not resists and tried it.

 

It was fascinating, I was really nervous but it worked.

 

Great plane. 

 

[Goran_M]

That was actually quite interesting to watch.

[arb65912]

Glad you liked it, Goran.    It might be more coming. Cheers, AJ 

[monbeg]

A number of serious errors of varying types associated with the video above if you have a double gen failure, three main items below.

 

1. the left side altimeter and vsi shouldn't be working

2. the autopilot shouldnt be working

3 a number of other busses should have dropped off line

 

Why do you select the CTOT on for landing ?

With 100% set on the dial you will suddenly get 100% power on both engines with the power levers above the 64 deg position and within 20% of what is preset on the dial, also you will think you have just had a double engine failure when you retard them as the CTOT cuts out.

Those switches should only ever be on for take-off and if you go around from a landing so that you get the power you have preset on the dial without exceeding any parameter limits, ie similiar to a takeoff without the ground roll bit.

Edited February 5, 2014 by monbeg

[arb65912]

Thanks for the input, Monbeg.

 

I knew about 2 errors errors you listed except that I was told by Saab pilot that autopilot would still work.Who to believe?

 

Keeping in mind that LES Saab340A is not a commercial simulator costing a fortune, I am very happy about the level of accuracy for the price I paid. I would buy it again as it is.

 

I select CTOT on for landing because I was advised to do so by Saab pilot but maybe I misunderstood, maybe it should be flipped on just before GA.

 

I have never discussed to what % it should be set to though.

From what you are saying 100% seems to be too much.

 

What criteria would you use to set CTOT % ?

 

What are your impressions with LES Saab340A?

 

Thanks for the input, cheers, AJ 

[monbeg]

Thanks for the input, Monbeg.

No problem

 

I knew about 2 errors errors you listed except that I was told by Saab pilot that autopilot would still work.Who to believe?

The autopilot servos are powered from the left and Right Avionics busses which in turn are powered from the Main Busses. If you look at your video above at 1:45 where you see the overhead panel you will see that you have the Main Bus lights on but the essential busses are still operating, follow the little white line upwards from the generator, it shows you what is on that line.

 

Keeping in mind that LES Saab340A is not a commercial simulator costing a fortune, I am very happy about the level of accuracy for the price I paid. I would buy it again as it is.

I think that for the effort they have put into it that is a fantastic aircraft, especially for the price they are selling it. Unfortunately I don't have the copy I have ordered as yet.

 

I select CTOT on for landing because I was advised to do so by Saab pilot but maybe I misunderstood, maybe it should be flipped on just before GA.

All that the CTOT does is set the power that you have dialled in to the rotary knob. When you advance the power levers to within ~20% on what you have set and then turn on the CTOT switches the power will increase to the setting you have dialled in without the engines exceeding any of the operating limitations. Be aware that you can however oush the levers too far forward and therefore manually override the protection - not correct procedure.

The only times that you need to use the CTOT is on a take-off or after you have commenced a go-around/missed approach and after you have manually advanced the power levers to within the 20% capture region, it will then look after the power for you while you concentrate on flying.

 

I have never discussed to what % it should be set to though.

From what you are saying 100% seems to be too much.

The maximum power that you can dial in is a combination of OAT and Altitude otherwise you are asking it to exceed engine limits.

At sea level on a cold day you shouldn't have a problem with 108% but at say a 5000' field at ISA + say 30 deg you may be limited to 92% (don't quote me on the figures-just an example).

Same issue with a go-around, OAT and elevation will determine how much power (torque) that you are limited to using (and in turn this affects (reduces) your take-off and landing weights).

Every turbine aircraft engine will have this type of external influence.

 

What criteria would you use to set CTOT % ?

This is an area that I could spend hours on. Basically the maximum output from the engines is affected by OAT and elevation but the amount of power you require is influenced by the runway length, obstacles, ATC requirements etc and the penalty is to reduce weight to the point where your maximum power available is adequate to sartisfy all the parameters.

 

What are your impressions with LES Saab340A?

The fact that we are discussing items such ast those above is an indication of how good this simulator is, ie you are not just flying a simulator but you are also learning about the daily considerations of operating this aircraft in different conditions (and we are only touching the tip of the iceberg).

As I mentioned above, I don't have my copy yet, still waiting [Cameron !!!]

 

Thanks for the input, cheers, AJ 

No problem, just hope I don't cause confusion though. This is actually a very well built and complex aircraft as I think you realise, how they have managed to produce something that seems to replicate it so well is amazing.

Update, I have added a pic, not sure if it appears. If it does then it shows the busses that are lost with both gens offline.

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by monbeg

[JGregory]

A number of serious errors of varying types associated with the video above if you have a double gen failure, three main items below.

 

1. the left side altimeter and vsi shouldn't be working

2. the autopilot shouldnt be working

3 a number of other busses should have dropped off line

With Mike's help I was able to track down the issues he mentioned.  These have all been corrected and should be part of the update.

Edited February 6, 2014 by JGregory

[arb65912]

@Monbeg: thank you very much for taking your time and gave such a great explanations.

 

1. I understand now about the relation betyween flipping the CTOT switches of and the Power lever position.

If I understand it correctly, we do not want to flip the switches ON with power lever  more than 20% of the capture range.

Actually by flipping the CTOT on before landing, I was getting few times in a very frustrating situation, I wanted to add some power to lower the descend rate and I would get the power set on CTOT scale.

 

Thank you VERY MUCH for that explanation, I might assign a key  for managing CTOT switches.

It is hard to manually fly the plane and look down to flip CTOT switches on while the whole attention should be directed to doing GA.

 

2. Attached image shows fine, where did you get it from  if I can ask, it is not part of the manual, is it?

 

3. No confusion at all, quite opposite, I am happy to hear your explanations.

   Are you a Saab pilot?

   Your explanations are very detailed.

 

4. After a bit bumpy beginning, I totally fell in love with LES Saab340A and I even started a separated thread about my experiences with it.

 

http://forums.x-pilot.com/topic/6326-leading-edge-simulations-saab-340a-experience/

 

I am not a real pilot, I only had several hours of training in Piper 140 Cherokee but simulator is kind of a substitution for the dreams that will never come true, I just do not have enough money to continue siccessful training.

 

I am aware that LES Saab340A is not a 100% simulation of the real deal and I am very happy that LES Team was able to come up with that level of accuracy for the price Saab is selling.

My only wish is to see the update which will  squeeze few more FPS which would be great in my case.

 

Anyway, I do not want to make the story too long, I am very happy with Saab and your input. I will post questions as they appear.

 

With Mike's help I was able to track down the issues he mentioned.  These have all been corrected and should be part of the update.

 

 

Jim, can I ask you what determines if "should" could become "will"?

 

I know that Goran already sent files ( it was said in one of the threads) as well whoever was involved in the improvements and it all is waiting for Cameron to get his hands on putting it into installer which is a complicated process and takes a lot of time and effort.

 

What you just said means that the changes might be included in the update but it is only up to Cameron or that it might be yet another further update?

 

I am just asking because you guys went so far as far as the complexity and accuracy with Saab that it would be great to have it even closer to the real deal that it is now.

 

Totally off topic now.

I started flying on FSE and I took a v$3,600,000 loan and bought ..................... Saab340

I have six months to pay the loan, monthly payment around v$370,000 which means a LOT of flying.

 

Cheers, AJ

Edited February 6, 2014 by arb65912

[JGregory]

Jim, can I ask you what determines if "should" could become "will"?

Timing.

 

I know that Goran already sent files ( it was said in one of the threads) as well whoever was involved in the improvements and it all is waiting for Cameron to get his hands on putting it into installer which is a complicated process and takes a lot of time and effort.
 
What you just said means that the changes might be included in the update but it is only up to Cameron or that it might be yet another further update?
 
I am just asking because you guys went so far as far as the complexity and accuracy with Saab that it would be great to have it even closer to the real deal that it is now.

At any point in time any one of us may make changes in our respective areas of development.  As well, Cameron needs to code and prep the installer.  The various stages of development determines when a bug fix/feature gets included in the next update. Yes, I'm sure, there will be further updates in the future (beyond the one you are already expecting).  Any time we find a bug, or something that isn't correct, or even a new feature, we will make it available in the next update within the timing mentioned above.  Updates will be ongoing in order to bring you the best possible product we can.

[arb65912]

Hi Jim,

 

Thank you very much for taking your time and replying.

 

It makes me very happy to hear that the upcoming update might not be the latest if any further updates are needed.

 

I was under the impression that it is going to be only one and that's it.

 

It was a reason I did not point out the errors with both generators failure.

 

Thank you again, I like this approach very much.

 

Cheers, AJ