Douglas DC-3 v2 Release Announcement!

[Erny_Module]

I don't know what aircraft people are flying, or what their expectations are - I can only offer my view. Granted there may be things off with the model - but that's just polygon wrangling and could be fixed. Doors slightly worong sized/wrong place... you might be right - I don't know. I fly mostly from the flight deck so it's from there I will offer my first thoughts.

Got the aircraft today, but as we're in the middle of having our house repainted, with all the attendant chaos I 've only just manage a brief hop from Nantes (LFRS) to Ancenis (LFFI) with the classic DC3. Took a while to get my controls configured properly - I have the Thrustmaster Airbus sidestick and throttle quadrants, with flaps/speedbrake addons, plus rudder pedals with toe brakes. Trim controls were a bit different as they're mechanical, not servo, but everything is working as advertised, apart from flaps control - maybe when I get a bit more time I figure it out. If in doubt, read the manual and waggle the handle! 

Managed a smooth takeoff, using diff braking and engine thrust to maintain the centreline, but quite uneventful and not at all hard to control. Used the majority of the flight to try out the trim controls and set up views and got up to around 6,000ft without anything catching fire, blowing up or otherwise failing, which is what I'd expected! Flew a right hand pattern for runway 25 at LFFI, with a hard landing pretty much on the numbers - all in all, compared to some first flights I've had, this was a major achievement! And hand flown all the way.

I've got the 'Other Two' DC3's, the payware and the freeware, but this one feels different.  I can't put my finger on it but feels like actually flying a big old 1930's aircraft, and not a sled on rails. It seems to have a mind of it's own at times and needs a bit of anticipation and a firm hand to make it do what you want. Quite unlike the other two... and I like it! But then, I'm a funny sort... I like tail draggers, seat-of-the-pants flying - my other favourite is the Tiger Moth, which the majority of DC-3 pilots would have started on, back in the day. It certainly keeps you busy and alert, and I can see that I'll be putting in a lot of hours getting to know this old girl

In summary, I'm not disappointed, but fascinated - theres a lot going on 'under the hood' which most of the aircraft I fly don't have. I think the 'livery as airframe' concept is inspired and absolutely the right way to go. Can't imagine why no-one thought of it before. But, this is not an aircraft for everyone., and can be quite a challenge, as was the original (and I have that on good authority from my father - RAF Coastal Command  - and my Uncle John from Canada (RCAF).

Thanks Team LES - entirely happy to have this aircraft, and look forward to updates!

[Burning Bridges]

how is the sound?

[Erny_Module]

1 minute ago, Burning Bridges said:

how is the sound?

From the little experience I've had so far, pretty good. Sounds authentic, and forms part of the ambience rather that being intrusive - might be a bit quiet for some, personal taste, but no complaints from me.

[fleurenf]

How does it compare with the VSL C47/DC3? LES version is double the price.

[diamonddriller]

@Capetonian  Admittedly only tried this livery, but where's the massive gap between the rudder and vertical stabilizer?

I'm using a Mac.  I think you are being very harsh in your criticisms.  LES has produced great planes for this sim.  Errors creep in, and minor graphical inaccuracies are no big deal.  I usually sit in the cockpit, not outside

[Erny_Module]

19 hours ago, fleurenf said:

How does it compare with the VSL C47/DC3? LES version is double the price.

Good question! 

I now have 3 DC-3’s - the VSkyLabs DC3/C47, the freeware Aeroworks DC3, and the LES DC3. If I had to put them in order of preference it would be 1st LES, 2nd Aeroworks, 3rd Skylabs - but by very narrow margins. Out of preference I’ve been flying the Aeroworks (prior to the LES version) because I’m not keen on the VSL cockpit textures and the ground handling, which I find to be next to impossible to do anything! It’s a good model and flies really well, and has good systems, but I can’t get on with it aesthetically nor practically. I find the Aeroworks to have better handling and more pleasing/less distracting textures, and the best sounds of all three.

Even though my experience with the LES version is very limited so far, due to having our house repainted (utter chaos!) and looming deadlines, I’ve immediately taken to it as the texturing is the best of the three, the systems depth is far and away the best, and it has a certain feel that is hard to quantify - it just feels ‘right’. 

Obviously, I’ve never flown a real world DC3, but around 25 years ago I did quite a few hours pilot training in a C172 towards my PPL, so I have some limited experience. The LES DC3 feels more like a real aircraft than the other two and I can see myself spending a lot of time flying it and getting to know it. Can’t wait for the paint kit so I create liveries/airframes for it!

Obviously, others might have different opinions and violently disagree and that’s OK - so much of this is purely subjective and a matter of personal taste, so nobody is right or wrong - least of all me. 

Is it worth the price? In my opinion, yes. I’ll get so much enjoyment out of this over a very long time that it’s superb value for money. I’m a technical/historical illustrator for a living, and build models in Cinema 4D, so I know precisely what goes into just building the model. To that, add all the systems, and making it flyable in X-Plane… that’s an enormous amount of work by a team of talented people. I don’t buy a lot of PayWare aircraft but will happily hand over the cash for something I feel is worth it.

 

NB: This is not an MSFS aircraft, where you turn on the lights, fire up the engine and aimlessly pootle about very pretty scenery.  If that’s what you’re after in a flight sim, look elsewhere - the LES DC3 is not for you. I see the SimSphere is becoming quite animated about the appearance of the LES DC3 - VSkylabs almost immediately announced an imminent update, with improved systems. Curious timing, no? :-)

[Erny_Module]

5 hours ago, diamonddriller said:

@Capetonian  Admittedly only tried this livery, but where's the massive gap between the rudder and vertical stabilizer?

I'm using a Mac.  I think you are being very harsh in your criticisms.  LES has produced great planes for this sim.  Errors creep in, and minor graphical inaccuracies are no big deal.  I usually sit in the cockpit, not outside

Totally with you there. Also Mac user (iMac, but soon M2 Studio) and generally fly from the flight deck and not the tail. Is the model perfect? Probably not. Do I care, and does it affect my enjoyment? Not at all. The hydraulics/electrics/fuel systems are far more important than some graphical annoyances - those can be fixed in short order. 

[ilias.tselios]

Let me say a few things about the criticism towards our DC-3. 

First of all, any criticism is welcomed. Even harsh ones; we can skip the harshness and see if there is any value into them, that will help us to improve.

We understand that not everything is perfect and complete. Personally, I can't recall any release that was so successful that the aircraft never needed an update or fixes. On the other hand, the aircraft is far from unusable.

About price: There is some criticism to be too high. You'll decide about this, but keep in mind that you get 2 aircraft, not one. While there are a lot of common elements between the two, also there is big divergence, not only on the visual part, but also to how the systems operate from the base level. For example, more than 5,000 lines of (lua) code is only for the Modern variant.

There are things that might not be visible on the first sight. For example, the radio stack on the Modern variant. Except the GPS which is based on X-Plane 530 (with also support for RXP 530, and option to use the 650 instead), all other units are simulated to 95+% compared with the real life units. Include all modes, and all operations, from how to set the baro pressure on the autopilot, to store and recall stored frequencies in the COM2 radio, to OBS function on the NAV2, timers for NAV2 and 2 ADFs, to how to change your transponder ID, which initially is set by the tail number of each airframe, and much more.

We are working now, harder than ever, to bring to you the updates as soon as possible, and also add things to cover user specific needs. We are deeply appreciate the money you pay for DC3, and will continue to fix and improve DC3.

[Erny_Module]

2 hours ago, airfighter said:

Let me say a few things about the criticism towards our DC-3. 

First of all, any criticism is welcomed. Even harsh ones; we can skip the harshness and see if there is any value into them, that will help us to improve.

We understand that not everything is perfect and complete. Personally, I can't recall any release that was so successful that the aircraft never needed an update or fixes. On the other hand, the aircraft is far from unusable.

About price: There is some criticism to be too high. You'll decide about this, but keep in mind that you get 2 aircraft, not one. While there are a lot of common elements between the two, also there is big divergence, not only on the visual part, but also to how the systems operate from the base level. For example, more than 5,000 lines of (lua) code is only for the Modern variant.

There are things that might not be visible on the first sight. For example, the radio stack on the Modern variant. Except the GPS which is based on X-Plane 530 (with also support for RXP 530, and option to use the 650 instead), all other units are simulated to 95+% compared with the real life units. Include all modes, and all operations, from how to set the baro pressure on the autopilot, to store and recall stored frequencies in the COM2 radio, to OBS function on the NAV2, timers for NAV2 and 2 ADFs, to how to change your transponder ID, which initially is set by the tail number of each airframe, and much more.

We are working now, harder than ever, to bring to you the updates as soon as possible, and also add things to cover user specific needs. We are deeply appreciate the money you pay for DC3, and will continue to fix and improve DC3.

Always very welcome to hear from the developers about the inner workings of their products. Looks like I'll have a lot more time in the coming weeks to really explore and try out the aircraft, in both flavours, but for a V1.0 release, it's pretty good and perfectly usable. Even real world aircraft get released with known and unknown problems (737Max - I'm looking at you!) so I'm looking forward to the updates. 

I've only bought two aircraft from X-Aviation (so far) - the DC-3 and the TOGA Mitsubishi MU-2. True, they cost more than most, but they are also much more complex, feature rich and give a more rewarding experience all round, so for me, that's real value for money. 

Paint kit would be nice... can't wait to get started with some liveries! 

[Kneed]

I'm on a PC running 12.6r3 and I cannot start X-plane with the DC3 ( either variant ). It freezes as soon as it opens in the cockpit. I have to force quit. If I start with another aircraft, then change to the DC3 it's okay. Any suggestions as to what I can do on this end to correct this?

Thanks

 

[Cameron]

1 hour ago, Kneed said:

I'm on a PC running 12.6r3 and I cannot start X-plane with the DC3 ( either variant ). It freezes as soon as it opens in the cockpit. I have to force quit. If I start with another aircraft, then change to the DC3 it's okay. Any suggestions as to what I can do on this end to correct this?

Thanks

This particular problem has been documented multiple times on our forum. It's currently a known bug with X-Plane 12, and Laminar Research is aware of it. The resolution for this will need to come from them.

In the meantime, as you've observed, starting with another aircraft and then switching to the DC3 seems to be a viable workaround. I understand this is not ideal, but it's a temporary solution until the issue is addressed by Laminar Research.

We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter.

[diamonddriller]

@CapetonianSee my apology re the rudder gap in the .org forum!

[Erny_Module]

Just a quick note - I just got the VSL C47 update, had a quick flight around the Cape Verde islands, followed by a flight in the LES DC3 Classic from GMMZ to GMMX, Morocco, over the High Atlas mountains. Hand flown all the way for LES, mostly autopilot for VSL. LES DC3 is still my favourite for overall flying experience. I can't put my finger on it but I feel much more involved and invested in the LES version than the VSL - it genuinely feels like flying an actual aircraft - it has mass, inertia, control input lag, it needs constant monitoring, attention and adjustment, the sounds are an integral part of it - any slight change in engine note - scan the instruments! The more I fly it, the more I like it. This was the DC-3 experience I wanted from Day 1.

[fleurenf]

Thanks all for your comments. As a pensioner and living in Australia the current conversion value is around $82.00. Hence I have to think twice about buying it.  I've purchased a few aircraft through X-Aviation including the Challenger so my pockets are getting a bit empty. Hopefully if I do purchase it there's an Aussie livery for it.

Edited September 15, 2023 by fleurenf
added text

[Erny_Module]

7 hours ago, fleurenf said:

Thanks all for your comments. As a pensioner and living in Australia the current conversion value is around $82.00. Hence I have to think twice about buying it.  I've purchased a few aircraft through X-Aviation including the Challenger so my pockets are getting a bit empty. Hopefully if I do purchase it there's an Aussie livery for it.

I think we're going to need the Paint Kit to do new liveries - I've had a look at the livery files that come with it and it seems to be logically laid out, but identifying the parts can be tricky. I might try and generate a UV mesh and see if that helps. Did you have anything in particular in mid?

[ilias.tselios]

1 hour ago, Erny_Module said:

I think we're going to need the Paint Kit to do new liveries - I've had a look at the livery files that come with it and it seems to be logically laid out, but identifying the parts can be tricky. I might try and generate a UV mesh and see if that helps. Did you have anything in particular in mid?

We are fixing couple 3D things, and we want to make sure that there are no changes, and give you an up-to-date paintkit.

[Erny_Module]

1 hour ago, airfighter said:

We are fixing couple 3D things, and we want to make sure that there are no changes, and give you an up-to-date paintkit.

Thanks for letting me know, much appreciated. I'll hold off on doing anything for now.

[fleurenf]

7 hours ago, Erny_Module said:

I think we're going to need the Paint Kit to do new liveries - I've had a look at the livery files that come with it and it seems to be logically laid out, but identifying the parts can be tricky. I might try and generate a UV mesh and see if that helps. Did you have anything in particular in mid?

Thanks for your response. A Royal Australian Air Force Livery would be great. I have purchased it albeit pension week is still a week away but I like the vintage aircraft being an ex RAAF member myself

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by fleurenf
added text

[Harry Mole]

I need to agree with Capetonian... I wasted my money purchasing this model... I have over 40 years of simming experienced the pleasure of STUDY LEVEL models ie A2A FlyJSim PMDG etc etc... but never have I worked through the POH and applied the checklists to a T and struggled to even start this mother.  After a week of battling  which included uninstalling and reinstalling a few times... I will set aside the purchase and continue with other DAKs which react to procedures as stipulated ie SkyLabs Aeroworx Laminar Research etc etc.  Not very much on youtube in the way of tutorials... If anyone reading expreinced the same problem and found a solution please share.

[ilias.tselios]

21 hours ago, Harry Mole said:

I need to agree with Capetonian... I wasted my money purchasing this model... I have over 40 years of simming experienced the pleasure of STUDY LEVEL models ie A2A FlyJSim PMDG etc etc... but never have I worked through the POH and applied the checklists to a T and struggled to even start this mother.  After a week of battling  which included uninstalling and reinstalling a few times... I will set aside the purchase and continue with other DAKs which react to procedures as stipulated ie SkyLabs Aeroworx Laminar Research etc etc.  Not very much on youtube in the way of tutorials... If anyone reading expreinced the same problem and found a solution please share.

Without describing with details what your issue is, how we can point to the solution? There are a ton of customers that happily fly our DC3 daily, without such issue. So the case that "something is wrong with the aircraft", does not hold water.

Specially for the engines start, there is a dedicated section in our online manual, you can find it here: https://airfightergr.github.io/les_dc3_docs/docs/common/engines_start/

If that does not solve your issue, please describe with details what's wrong, according to the support guidelines: https://forums.x-pilot.com/forums/topic/27109-douglas-dc-3-v2-support-guidelines/.

 

Edited March 14 by airfighter