Recommended joystick sensitivity curve ?

[chock767]

Hi all,

I have flew CL650 for quite sometime and I have been enjoy her pretty much. However, she feel quite twitchy when I do a small stick correction. In fact, I have trim her nose down a bit when hand fly on approach such that the g or pitch rate per stick movement is not too sensitive. Does dev or any real pilot have any recommend stick curve or sensitivity setting ?

Many Thanks !

[richjb]

On 3/29/2022 at 8:18 AM, chock767 said:

Hi all,

I have flew CL650 for quite sometime and I have been enjoy her pretty much. However, she feel quite twitchy when I do a small stick correction. In fact, I have trim her nose down a bit when hand fly on approach such that the g or pitch rate per stick movement is not too sensitive. Does dev or any real pilot have any recommend stick curve or sensitivity setting ?

Many Thanks !

Working on it.  Like you, I find the aircraft overly sensitive with small control movements.   I am not certain if it's a HS CL650 issue or an X-Plane issue.  I have tried several different curves and stability augmentation settings.  I have watched the X-Plane video by Austin.  I'm playing a bunch of different configurations.  Still playing... 

I have always found any X-Plane aircraft to be somewhat oversensitive.  FlightDeck2Sim's commented on this as well and had noted that some aircraft have a significant, noticeable delay between elevator control movement and actual elevator movement.  He commented on this in the FlyJ B737-200 on a recent live stream flight in Saudi Arabia,and made the comment that he has noticed it in other X-Plane aircraft as well.  I do not know whether this applies to HS CL650.  I raise it here because he's a pretty well respected source for real world flying and simulator flying and his reflections on X-Plane aircraft resonates with my experience.  I may  have 12,000 hours and 9000 hours in turbojets, but no one knows me from Adam. 

Not taking anything away from HS CL650.  It's the best flight simulator aircraft for any platform (XPlane, MSFS 2020, FSX, P3D)...period!

Rich Boll

 

[Pils]

6 minutes ago, richjb said:

I do not know whether this applies to HS CL650.

It does not. (At least incorrectly/artificially like the other examples.)

[Pils]

7 minutes ago, richjb said:

stability augmentation

Probably don’t want to change those particular values. I’m not 100% sure they’d have any effect on the CL-650, but any effect may well be changing the flight model to be something not what the developer intended.

If you want to have more “precision“ in the controls (and a lot of this comes down to the hardware one uses), one suggestion is setting up a custom response curve so that the (for example) 90% position of your hardware isn’t the 90% position of the sim controls. Rather flatten the “curve” (linear, straight line) from 0% to (say) 90% input results in 0% to (say) 60% output (or whatever range makes sense for “normal” flight envelope deflections). And then 100% is 100% so you can still do flight control checks, etc. If that makes sense.

[richjb]

7 hours ago, Pils said:

Probably don’t want to change those particular values. I’m not 100% sure they’d have any effect on the CL-650, but any effect may well be changing the flight model to be something not what the developer intended.

If you want to have more “precision“ in the controls (and a lot of this comes down to the hardware one uses), one suggestion is setting up a custom response curve so that the (for example) 90% position of your hardware isn’t the 90% position of the sim controls. Rather flatten the “curve” (linear, straight line) from 0% to (say) 90% input results in 0% to (say) 60% output (or whatever range makes sense for “normal” flight envelope deflections). And then 100% is 100% so you can still do flight control checks, etc. If that makes sense.

Thanks PIls!

I appreciate the heads up on the stability augmentation  X-Plane doesn't provide a lot explanation about what these do. 

I'm trying to come to sense with X-Plane in this regard for all airplane models, not just HS CL650.  I flew the FlyJ B737 the other day and on final approach it was atrocious.  FWIW, I have the same issues in MSFS 2020. 

I like to think I have good set up.   I have PFC Jetliner yoke, FlightLInk rudders, a B737 Jetmax throttle quadrant, and various Go-Flight modules (MCP Pro, EFIS, and LGT-II, and NAV-COM radio stack).  if my wife knew what I spend, I would be shot!   The Yoke and rudders are getting a bit long in the tooth, and I am eyeing a Brunner force feedback rudder.  By in larger, though, I think I have pretty good equipment. 

I have tried to set the response curves, flattening them as you describe.  The problem is that I always get some undesirable effects as you use more control force deflection. It's probably something I need to play with more as I am a X-Plane newbie, or at least so in terms of how much I have played with FSX and P3D in the past. 

I have to wonder if some of my issues with V1 cuts in HS CL650 are the result of the fact that I cannot get full rudder deflection in the X-Plane calibration.  Moving the rudder full left and right, the calibration never goes all the way up to the upper right hand corner.  I'm always somewhere down in the upper right third of the screen.  however, using the control page on HS CL650, it does appear that I'm getting full rudder deflection.  Same when I open the Developer's flight control screen. 

I'm hoping that XP12 will address some of these issues.  Auston alluded to this in some of his videos. 

Thanks again, Pils!   Happy flying!

Rich Boll

 

 

[richjb]

Here's Austin's recent video on the subject: 

 

[richjb]

Hi Pils, 

I worked with the joystick curves tonight. Control Sensitivity and Stability Augmentation were all set at zero:

My PFC Jetliner Yoke has a decent fore/aft range on it in elevator control, so I did not put that much of a response curve into the Pitch Axis Response Curve:

The control wheel; however, has a much smaller range compared to the airplane/simulator.  I followed Austin's example and used the in-sim control wheel displacement against my Yoke displacement as I moved the ailerons left and right.   The ratio is 70:40 for roll axis and 60:40 for pitch axis.

For the yaw axis, I was trying to replicate the maximum input I can get from my FlightLink rudder pedals:

Full right rudder gives only a 70:100 ratio.  Left rudder was a little better at 92:100 ratio.  In neither case can get a 1:1 ratio.  I have calibrated and re-calibrated my rudders. Any suggestions? 

As result, I set the Yaw Response Curve to a 70:100 ratio just to make sure that I'm getting full airplane/sim rudder with full rudder on my joystick.  Alas, it did not fix my V1 cut issue.  With full rudder, climbing out at V2 speed, the slip indicator in the Doghouse is still 3/4 to 1 full displacement when it should be centered. I'm going to have throw that one back you folks because I can't figure out how to fix it. 

With these response curves in roll and pitch, the airplane does fly better.  I would like to try this configuration out in some windy days, and I bet KICT will oblige me soon enough. 

Thanks for your comments and help! 

Rich