Nose up attitude...

[GEL]

Apologies if this has been approached before but have not been able to find any mention of it.

The latest Saab ver (1.5) for x-plane 10.5 seems to always fly in a pronounced nose up attitude.

Whether at cruise altitude (2-3 deg) or approach (5+ deg). 

Anybody else experience this?

[Goran_M]

Please provide more information.  IAS at cruise and approach.  Power settings.  Weight.  

[GEL]

Typical cruise altitudes are between 080 and fl140 with ias of 210-220 kts . TL setting of 85%-90% trq .  CL settings apprx 13000

On final before GS capture apprx ias 140 - 120 kts .. flaps 20-30... CL to max ... (flaps help lower the nose by a deg or two)

default fuel and weight  (thought they may have been a contributing factor)

 

 

[GEL]

maybe these pics will help to explain....

...at three different altitudes: 060, fl100, fl140

default weight and fuel

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FYI: CTOT appears to be hit and miss. I've taken to testing whether it's active or not

before each flight. I've noticed when not available I'm able to push the TL to max (at any time of flight)

w/o going into red. They (eng rpm) max at 100 and stay there until TL are reduced.

I've learned to embrace the mystery... ;-)

[JGregory]

I'm not sure what you re trying to explain with those screenshots.  As far as aircraft pitch attitude, I don't think what you are experiencing is unusual at all.  Most aircraft will have a slight pitch up attitude in cruise (which can be greater with altitude).  

As far as CTOR is concerned, those who know how to operate the system correctly are not complaining of having any problems.  Saying it id "hit or miss" is NOT very helpful.  Please provide more details of exactly WHAT you did and what the results were.

 In addition, I'm confused by your statement ... "I've noticed when not available I'm able to push the TL to max (at any time of flight) w/o going into red. They (eng rpm) max at 100 and stay there until TL are reduced."  What do you think SHOULD be happening in this situation??

Edited April 5, 2018 by JGregory

[GEL]

 If you are suggesting pitch attitude is normal.  Fine.

 

By "hit or miss" I mean I either have the use of CTOT or not. (read: working or not upon starting a session w/ x-plane and the Saab)

I'm not new to this model. I understand how this "system works" and have used it with success in the past

w/o issue.  

I tend to do the same things upon start up. When CTOT is available (read: loaded with the model upon start-up)

it works pretty much the way it always has... auto-coarsen is "on" ,  CTOT is "dialed in" to the desired % of torque 

and both L/R armed. The CTOT system "should" engage at apprx 70% ( at least mine does when working) and increase

torque to the dialed in %. If all is good then the power system works as expected.

If all is not good (read: CTOT did not load up with the aircraft) then things don't function as expected...

for example: when CTOT is not working, as in: unavailable, off line, broken... I can position the TL (thrust levers) to max and keep them there for the entire flight

if I choose w/o fear of over heating, etc... IOW the rest of the power system does not act as expected.

So, as I said in an earlier text: it's "hit or miss" whether I have CTOT loaded with the aircraft or not.

Likewise, before I begin a flight (read: Take off) I prepare CTOT and increase eng rpm (70%+/- ) to see if the system loaded..

if yes: then all is good ...if no: then at least I know not to factor that in upon T/O.

 

 

[JGregory]

We made NO changes to the CTOT system, so it should behave exactly as it did in previous versions. 

Your description of CTOT "loading" with the aircraft is curious.  Unless you are getting an error (console will pop up with a line of red highlighted text), then the scripts are loading.  They don't load "selectively" each time you use the Saab.  They are either working or they are not.  So, if the scripts "load" without errors, then CTOT will be operational (your description: available).  The ONLY time I have seen anything close to what you are describing (and then only with graphics) is when the users frame rates are significantly below minimum (19). 

Note: Auto-Coarsen is completely unrelated to CTOT.

 

Regarding this...

23 hours ago, GEL said:

If all is not good (read: CTOT did not load up with the aircraft) then things don't function as expected...

for example: when CTOT is not working, as in: unavailable, off line, broken... I can position the TL (thrust levers) to max and keep them there for the entire flight

if I choose w/o fear of over heating, etc... IOW the rest of the power system does not act as expected.

If you select 100% torque and CTOT is armed, then once your power levers are above the activation point you can position your power levers as you wish (beyond that point) and it will make no difference.  So, isn't it possible that CTOT was doing exactly what it was supposed to and that is why you were not overheating?  

I'm not sure what you mean by... "the rest of the power system".  Please clarify.

 

At this point we have no other reports of CTOT not working properly.  So, if CTOT is truly not functioning as it should for you, my suspicion is that there is a problem unique to your system.  Are you using any plugins that may be interfering with engine operations?  Perhaps you should test without those plugins or with a clean install of the XP demo.

 

I also strongly suggest you upgrade to XPv11 (if you can).  Support for v10 will not last forever.

Edited April 5, 2018 by JGregory

[GEL]

23 hours ago, JGregory said:

If you select 100% torque and CTOT is armed, then once your power levers are above the activation point you can position your power levers as you wish (beyond that point) and it will make no difference.  So, isn't it possible that CTOT was doing exactly what it was supposed to and that is why you were not overheating?

However I feel anybody accustomed to this model looks to the surge in thrust at the critical moment to confirm activation of the system.

I tend to use short runway scenarios (CYTZ) and a typical use of CTOT, for me, is to dial in a Torq% of 110% before T/O and once positive climb

is established and 500' AGL passed I dial down to 90%. I purposefully do not go (w/ TL) beyond 'activation point' for the reason above: the ability to dial

down to a friendlier Torque% during the climb. So for me the need to observe the surge in thrust (CTOT) on T/O is crucial.

When there is no surge to observe I understand that to mean CTOT is not available ... for whatever reason. I decide at that point to abort T/O 

or continue. Of course if I continue there is no way to observe any of this because the power levers are already at max and I assume to be

w/o benefit of the CTOT system.

To confirm, when I then lower the TL to the desired 90% torque: that , indeed, translates on the torque displays. 

If CTOT was actually on line, that should have no effect. (as you said )

On 4/5/2018 at 9:27 AM, JGregory said:

Are you using any plugins that may be interfering with engine operations?

I've considered that. And I must say the only program that I consider incompatible to the Saab is x-enviro. 

If it's a choice between the Saab or x-enviro .... well, I no longer use x-enviro.

Otherwise I run few plugins.... betterpushback, xFMC, blu/fx , pretty much does it.

                                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There may be other factors such as changing locations w/i the airport environment. Sometimes  I don't like the location where the 

Saab is placed upon start-up and I change to a different location. But perhaps you would know more about the likelihood of effects of that than I.

                                      =========================================

I must say all the above is the exception not the rule. I have CTOT MOST of the time but not ALL of the time.

And because it is such a wonderful feature of this flight model and truly adds to the immersion of operations ... I wonder: why not all of the time (?)

                                      =========================================

I don't see a move to x-plane 11.  There's not enough in it to justify an upgrade in CPU for me. Perhaps v12 ? 

Maybe I just don't like odd numbered versions. ;-)

Your Saab will keep me quite busy in x-plane 10 for a long while yet.

It truly is one of the best.

 

Cheers

                                       

[JGregory]

3 hours ago, GEL said:

However I feel anybody accustomed to this model looks to the surge in thrust at the critical moment to confirm activation of the system.

I tend to use short runway scenarios (CYTZ) and a typical use of CTOT, for me, is to dial in a Torq% of 110% before T/O and once positive climb

is established and 500' AGL passed I dial down to 90%. I purposefully do not go (w/ TL) beyond 'activation point' for the reason above: the ability to dial

down to a friendlier Torque% during the climb. So for me the need to observe the surge in thrust (CTOT) on T/O is crucial.

When there is no surge to observe I understand that to mean CTOT is not available ... for whatever reason. I decide at that point to abort T/O 

or continue. Of course if I continue there is no way to observe any of this because the power levers are already at max and I assume to be

w/o benefit of the CTOT system.

To confirm, when I then lower the TL to the desired 90% torque: that , indeed, translates on the torque displays. 

If CTOT was actually on line, that should have no effect. (as you said )

So, the question becomes.... when you are "unable" to observe a surge in torque (which you believe indicates that CTOT is not working), are you able to dial down the torque and do the engines respond or not?

Don't be so sure about what you "think" other plugins may be doing.  A proper test is to eliminate ALL of them and then test.  If CTOT is OK at that point, add plugins back one at a time and test.  This should tell you which one may be the problem.  X-Enviro has been a cause of some crashes and we are talking to them to try and diagnose the problem, but again, there have been NO REPORTS of CTOT not working from ANYONE.  Without specific steps to recreate a problem we have no way to diagnose problems as they arise. 

If you change locations I strongly suggest you initialize the aircraft before proceeding.  Press the "lighting bolt" icon on the sidebar.

At this point I don't have much else to offer.  FULL compatibility with XPv11 will be in Saab v2.0 as there were far too many engine model changes to "fix" them for V10, or even for "some" compatibility in V11 with Saab v1.5.  Saab v2.0 will NOT be compatible with XPv10.  Having the latest version of the sim is not just about what this offers you (which is a lot), but will typically get you more up-to-date versions of your add-ons, in this case the Saab.

If you find anything more "specific" and "repeatable" to recreate the CTOT issue your having, please let us know.