Trim in V/S Climb or Descent Mode

[tuppy]

Gents,

Am having an issue with the the use of the trim manipulator in V/S climb and descent. For example, on descent, speed set manually, altitude selected, V/S mode selected.....

Issue is....... (to quote Goran's Facebook post)  "set your VS on the thumbwheel (centre pedestal, left of the autopilot switch) by clicking, dragging forward (for down) and HOLDING it there..."

Problem I have is that my operation of this works in the opposite sense.... if i click and drag forward the aircraft climbs, click and drag back, aircraft descends. This is opposite to both Gorans' comments AND what is indicated on the instrument panel.  I thought this was strange as it's contrary to the normal way trim orientation works.

Question is, am I doing it wrong or is it a a bug?  Do I have a misunderstanding of how this works? Have done numerous flights with always the same result.  I hate claiming a bug until I have eliminated any errors on my part. :-)

Any advice appreciated.  BTW, fantastic aircraft, absolutely loving it.  As an aside, I can vouch for the "Terrain Terrain"  GPWS warning works perfectly !!  Got my serious attention last flight... in cloud !!  It was right !

cheers

chris from oz

[JGregory]

I think you need to clarify this a bit.  I believe that Goran was talking about the V/S autopilot adjustment (FPM of climb or descent), not trim.  And yes, to set the FPM for V/S you drag back on the manipulator to increase the FPM and drag forward to decrease the FPM.  The trim switch panel is further aft of the autopilot V/S thumbwheel on the pedestal.  When flying on autopilot you CANNOT adjust the trim as it will disconnect the autopilot. 

[tuppy]

Hmmm.., thanks for the quick reply....  yes, not Trim, my mistake, sorry.

V/S autopilot adjustment....

The issue is as stated  above,  When I drag manipulator forward, the aircraft climbs.... when I drag back, the aircraft descends....

Is this dependent on whether I'm climbing or descending...?\

I'm confused :-)

[JGregory]

No, it is not dependent on whether you are climbing or descending.  The thumbwheel is working as expected.  No one else has reported any issue with this.  I'm not sure what else I can tell you at this point.  Do you have any other plugins that be be conflicting?  Can you provide a short video of this behavior?

[birdy.dma]

21 hours ago, tuppy said:

Hmmm.., thanks for the quick reply....  yes, not Trim, my mistake, sorry.

V/S autopilot adjustment....

The issue is as stated  above,  When I drag manipulator forward, the aircraft climbs.... when I drag back, the aircraft descends....

Is this dependent on whether I'm climbing or descending...?\

I'm confused :-)

Tick Vertical Speed Selection.

Assign you coly hat (or buttons) as described on the picture. _pos will be the up position, decreasing VS.

Even cold and dark, activate your button up (decrease) then down (increase) the VS value will be displayed in the upper left corner of your screen. Are your values inverted?

[tuppy]

Thanks birdy, I'll look into that ,

I'm not using a button or key to adjust V/S, just mouse click and drag.

More fiddling required....

cheers

chris from oz

[tuppy]

JGregory,   Thanks for the reply.... little tardy in getting back to you... had to learn how to record a vid...LOL

OK, sequence is :

Set SPD,   Select new Altitude,   Autopilot..select V/S, Power to Flight Idle.

Set V/S via Thumbwheel click/drag FWD  (for Down)  (not shown in video, but trust me!)

As you can see, aircraft climbs....

I'm not too concerned with this as I use IAS for descent, but I thought I'd let you know.   Pretty sure it's not operator error :-)

Loving this aircraft, thanks.

(Sorry about the video quality...  I'm not good at this)

Also attached plugins list....

WIN7, XP11

chris from oz

 

LES_Saab_340A_1.avi

Edited March 23, 2018 by tuppy

[JGregory]

@tuppy The video is not h helping as I can't even read the displays due to poor resolution. 

30 minutes ago, tuppy said:

Set V/S via Thumbwheel click/drag FWD  (for Down)  (not shown in video, but trust me!)

That's the correct behavior !!!  You drag the wheel toward the nose of the aircraft to reduce V/S (descent), and you drag the wheel toward the rear of the aircraft to increase V/S (climb).  

 

That's NOT what you described originally. Your first post stated...

 "if i click and drag forward the aircraft climbs, click and drag back, aircraft descends."

[tuppy]

Sorry,

But what i described in my original post IS what is happening..... click and drag forward, aircraft climbs... click and drag back, acft descends.....as per the video.

Quote    "That's NOT what you described originally. Your first post stated...

 "if i click and drag forward the aircraft climbs, click and drag back, aircraft descends."

That's exactly what I stated, and exactly what is happening.

How do i increase the video resolution to demonstrate to you  what is actually happening?

cheers

[JGregory]

Now I am not sure what you are describing 

 

In your original post you stated... "if i click and drag forward the aircraft climbs, click and drag back, aircraft descends."  That would be INCORRECT behavior.

 

In your post with the attached video you stated ... "Set V/S via Thumbwheel click/drag FWD  (for Down)  (not shown in video, but trust me!)".  That is CORRECT behavior.  

 

Correct behavior is when you click/drag forward (toward the nose of the aircraft) you reduce the V/S., and if you click/drag aft (toward the rear of the aircraft) you increase the V/S.

 

Please clarify which behavior you are actually experiencing. 

 

To change video settings got to File > Configure Video Recording

 

[Omarza]

I might be wrong but how I understood that sentence "Set V/S via Thumbwheel click/drag FWD  (for Down)  (not shown in video, but trust me!)" is that he clicked FWD (for Down), the action he EXPECTED...but that the aircraft climbed as can be seen in the video that the aircraft climbed according the the vertical speed indicator.  I think he just stated that he did a click/drag FWD (for Down)...the actions he did...but that the aircraft instead climbed as one can see in the video.

That said...on mine it works correctly as intended.

[JGregory]

5 minutes ago, Omarza said:

I might be wrong but how I understood that sentence "Set V/S via Thumbwheel click/drag FWD  (for Down)  (not shown in video, but trust me!)" is that he clicked FWD (for Down), the action he EXPECTED...but that the aircraft climbed as can be seen in the video that the aircraft climbed according the the vertical speed indicator.  I think he just stated that he did a click/drag FWD (for Down)...the actions he did...but that the aircraft instead climbed as one can see in the video.

That said...on mine it works correctly as intended.

Maybe, but somewhat confusing to say the least.   I don't know how you could see anything clearly in that video.  

More importantly, you are one of thousands who have a V/S thumbwheel that is working correctly, thanks for reporting that.  We have had NO other reports (except tuppy) of this NOT working as designed.

Edited March 23, 2018 by JGregory

[tuppy]

OK,  I may have sorted this out.

I think it may be my mis-interpretation of the meaning of "Up" and  "Down". I had interpreted those as in how a trim wheel functions.  Whereas in this case "Up" means "Increase" and "Down" means "Decrease" (of Vertical Speed).  JGregory's quote caused the penny to drop.

 

12 hours ago, JGregory said:

Correct behavior is when you click/drag forward (toward the nose of the aircraft) you reduce the V/S., and if you click/drag aft (toward the rear of the aircraft) you increase the V/S.

So, to clarify descent in V/S mode,

Set SPD,   Select new (lower) Altitude,   Autopilot..select V/S,  Power to Flight Idle.

Set V/S via Thumbwheel click/drag Back  (Up)     (to increase Rate of Descent)

Are these steps correct? If yes, then the manipulator is working correctly, and it was my mis-understanding that was the issue.

cheers

chris

 

[Lorenzo.D]

I have a problem with the command Les/cmd/cw/switch/pilot_pitch_trim pos

And the same neg.

Without autopilot if i push for neg i have trim up...

Instead the vs with the autopilot work good for me.

Inviato dal mio ASUS_X008D utilizzando Tapatalk

[JGregory]

10 hours ago, tuppy said:

Set V/S via Thumbwheel click/drag Back  (Up)     (to increase Rate of Descent)

NO!  click/drag back (toward the rear of the aircraft) INCREASES the VS !!!!!    

A positive VS will cause you to climb if the selected altitude is higher than your current altitude, a negative VS will cause you to descend if the selected altitude is lower than your current altitude.

[JGregory]

1 hour ago, Lorenzo.D said:

I have a problem with the command Les/cmd/cw/switch/pilot_pitch_trim pos

And the same neg.

Without autopilot if i push for neg i have trim up...

Instead the vs with the autopilot work good for me.

Inviato dal mio ASUS_X008D utilizzando Tapatalk

The trim command description is for the "position" of the switch, not the trim itself.  Probably not the best choice on our part, but for now it is what it is.

[birdy.dma]

3 hours ago, Lorenzo.D said:

I have a problem with the command Les/cmd/cw/switch/pilot_pitch_trim pos

And the same neg.

Without autopilot if i push for neg i have trim up...

Instead the vs with the autopilot work good for me.

Inviato dal mio ASUS_X008D utilizzando Tapatalk

As said by J Gregory, it is only a label. Same to turn a knob. It is not for up or down, but for right / left. Chose the command which will give the effect you are looking for. Does not matter its name.

LES/CMD/autopilot/APCP/turn_knob_pos
LES/CMD/autopilot/APCP/turn_knob_neg

[John E B]

Having read through the above I am not sure if what I am seeing is correct. The mouse movement seems to be more left/right to control VS rather than clicking and dragging forward or back as indicated by the double headed arrows. There is also a rotational manipulator that pops up. What is its function?

Hopefully the attached video clip makes what is ocurring clear.

Thank you.

Saab 340 .mp4

Log.txt

GizmoLog.txt

[JGregory]

There are some quirks in X-Plane's manipulator system that can cause unexpected behavior depending on the angle you are viewing from.  If you are seated in the pilot's seat of the Saab and look down toward the pedestal to use the VS manip, the behavior should be correct... drag fore and aft for VS.

 

The rotation manipulator is for heading (more specifically, roll) adjustment.

Edited March 25, 2018 by JGregory

[Aero_Medic]

I’ve jumped into this older post/conversation as it pertains to similar query I have with flying the Saab 340 and setting the Vertical Speed (VS) rate. Apologies if this has been asked already but I’ve only recently taken the S340 out of the hangar and still getting to grips with flying it.

The current location and mouse manipulator for adjusting the VS rate +/- i find a bit cumbersome on the desktop as it requires holding down the click spot and moving mouse back and forth to adjust and can be glitchy/awkward as it is a prolonged heads down process. 

Seeing as updates may be on the horizon ? Have LES considered assigning/updating the VS button/scroll wheel in the cockpit to the scroll wheel of the mouse? to ease setting the VS limit. 


 

 

[JGregory]

3 hours ago, Aero_Medic said:

I’ve jumped into this older post/conversation as it pertains to similar query I have with flying the Saab 340 and setting the Vertical Speed (VS) rate. Apologies if this has been asked already but I’ve only recently taken the S340 out of the hangar and still getting to grips with flying it.

The current location and mouse manipulator for adjusting the VS rate +/- i find a bit cumbersome on the desktop as it requires holding down the click spot and moving mouse back and forth to adjust and can be glitchy/awkward as it is a prolonged heads down process. 

Seeing as updates may be on the horizon ? Have LES considered assigning/updating the VS button/scroll wheel in the cockpit to the scroll wheel of the mouse? to ease setting the VS limit. 
 

The pitch wheel and turn knob are unique in the way they are "actuated".  The coming update will have a new manipulator that more closely matches the real-world aircraft.   Unfortunately, the (X-Plane) manipulator that we need to use does not include scroll wheel capability.   We will continue to test and modify this as necessary to make it easier for the users to use.

Edited March 10, 2020 by JGregory

[Aero_Medic]

20 hours ago, JGregory said:

The pitch wheel and turn knob are unique in the way they are "actuated".  The coming update will have a new manipulator that more closely matches the real-world aircraft.   Unfortunately, the (X-Plane) manipulator that we need to use does not include scroll wheel capability.   We will continue to test and modify this as necessary to make it easier for the users to use.

Thanks for responding and explaining the issue. Good to know and looking forward to the update. Keep up the good work on the aircraft, beautifully modelled.