FR: Lens Flare to be independent of the cloud rendering

[branislavmilic]

As you probably remember (or not), I'm more in cinematic clips in X-Plane than in pilot-style flying. 

I encountered a beautiful situation and wanted to record it once with the Lens Flare activated and then the same situation without the Lens Flare, so I can play later with both sequences during the video editing process. 

I was surprised and disappointed as the whole cloud set was reset once I disabled lens flare and close the SMP window. I don't see why the clouds have to be reset just because lens flare is disabled, it's just does not make sense as this effect is not part of the cloud but is just an extra layer. 

Also note the bug where lens flare is still visible even when the sun is behind a plane or, when in a cockpit, behind the structure of the cockpit (see image). Lens flare is never visible when an object hides the sun and when the sun is visible in the lens.

Or maybe there is a value we can change in a text file in the plug-in's folder where we can change that behaviour which is not realistic at all.

Thank you.

[Cameron]

You can't assume things you don't know.

X-Plane itself is responsible for the rendering order. We can only do so much within those bounds. Complain to Laminar if you wish, but they'll basically tell you "Ya, we know, tough luck for now though."

You have no idea how SkyMaxx Pro does scene rendering, so for you to assume something should be so easily done with regards to separating lens flare from clouds is not reality. And, in years and years of production, I think you're the first person I've heard even complain about this (probably because most people just fly instead of cinema).

Our main concern is simmers first. You do nice work, but we have to be practical and economical in approach. Attempting to change something just for you even if you could would not be a smart or viable business decision!

[branislavmilic]

Hi

Thank you for your rude reply. You (Laminar) told me the same for Godrays and finally you admitted that by changing the spread of the “crepuscular-rays-depth” value in the "SilverLining.config" text file, we can avoid that Godrays appear in front of the plane. In your default settings, it is not realistic in most cases as very often the plane and Godrays intersect.. With the value I put, it's realistic in 99% of the situations. This is why I was assuming that we can also change the order of the lens flare... Sorry for assuming and asking!

From now I will disable Lens Flare and add it in postproduction, at least there we can edit it and choose different types of lens flare at will.

 

[Ben Russell]

20 minutes ago, branislavmilic said:

Hi

Thank you for your rude reply. You (Laminar) told me the same for Godrays and finally you admitted that by changing the spread of the “crepuscular-rays-depth” value in the "SilverLining.config" text file, we can avoid that Godrays appear in front of the plane. In your default settings, it is not realistic in most cases as very often the plane and Godrays intersect.. With the value I put, it's realistic in 99% of the situations. This is why I was assuming that we can also change the order of the lens flare... Sorry for assuming and asking!

From now I will disable Lens Flare and add it in postproduction, at least there we can edit it and choose different types of lens flare at will.

 

Your passive agressive victim posts are getting tiring.

[Cameron]

1 hour ago, branislavmilic said:

Thank you for your rude reply.

The only thing rude in here is you asserting that something was programmed incorrectly or that you can't possibly understand a design choice...like, how dare we do that!

You not liking cold, hard facts and viewing them as rude is your own issue in and of itself. In fact, in my post I ended it by specifically stating: "You do nice work, but we have to be practical and economical in approach."

Hardly rude on my end.

[branislavmilic]

1. Next time I find something unrealistic in SMP, I don't think I will raise the issue. 

2. You should hire a marketing pro or something like a community manager, or a PR... I always say that to the corporations I give advices to:
"Never let developers talk to the clients. Developers don't know how to talk to customers because the mindsets are totally different. Developers don't understand that just one client is the one who helped them eat one day. Customers are customers."

Heard the same story about X-enviro (I don't have their plug-in, I just read what others say about them): the product is great but they can't hear some critics. Worse, they even ban their own customers from their Facebook page. Can't verify but I read that story many times. Same with JARDesign... their support sucks and that's a fact. Also the way their CEO reply to his customers is pathetic and outrageous. Countless negative feedbacks from their client on social networks about the way JARDesign communicates.

Don't forget to thank me when I will buy a second licence for a second unit on Windows. And don't forget to thank me when I will add you in the credits of my forthcoming long movie made with X-Plane. Just for you a preview of a shot I made today: https://vimeo.com/246728551/2476b221a7

 

[Ben Russell]

19 minutes ago, branislavmilic said:

1. Next time I find something unrealistic in SMP, I don't think I will raise the issue. 

2. You should hire a marketing pro or something like a community manager, or a PR... I always say that to the corporations I give advices to:
"Never let developers talk to the clients. Developers don't know how to talk to customers because the mindsets are totally different. Developers don't understand that just one client is the one who helped them eat one day. Customers are customers."

Heard the same story about X-enviro (I don't have their plug-in, I just read what others say about them): the product is great but they can't hear some critics. Worse, they even ban their own customers from their Facebook page. Can't verify but I read that story many times. Same with JARDesign... their support sucks and that's a fact. Also the way their CEO reply to his customers is pathetic and outrageous. Countless negative feedbacks from their client on social networks about the way JARDesign communicates.

Don't forget to thank me when I will buy a second licence for a second unit on Windows. And don't forget to thank me when I will add you in the credits of my forthcoming long movie made with X-Plane. Just for you a preview of a shot I made today: https://vimeo.com/246728551/2476b221a7

 

Your expectations of photo realism from a gaming product are unrealistic. The technical limitations have been repeated to you over a period of months.

Would you buy this and complain about artifacts and non-suitability for 4K broadcast work? No.

[branislavmilic]

You really don't get it. I use X-Plane and its external plug-ins for what they are. The same way as a painter is using inks and is not interested in reproducing reality like a photo. The day X-Plane renders images like photos or videos, I would stop making cinematic clips. The great thing is to make an aviation video where we see that it is 3D in a specific style, that it does some great stuff and some others are just an expression of what we are used to see. X-Plane and its plug-ins produce an interpretation of reality that is interesting.

Your clouds are bizarre but it's a style and this is why I use them. 

Your colors are bizarre but it's a style and this is why I use them. 

Your environment settings are bizarre but it's a style and this is why I use them. 

But having Godrays in front of planes or Lens Flare where they should not appear, not even a painter who will try to express something will use them because it just does not make sense. If your lens flare was more bizarre than what we have in real lenses, I would use it anyway because it's a style. 

If I was in your team I would say: better not to spend time in lens flare if it is visible through objects because it never happens in reality. 

Are you getting it?

And if I was in your team, I would reply like this to my initial post: 

"Hi Branislav

Visually, Lens Flare seems to be an extra layer that we could just enable or not but the way X-Plane handles the rendering order does not help us to meet your request. We can only do so much within these X-Plane limitations. You should try to raise some awareness to Laminar so they can see with your example if they can provide an enhanced 3D environment for us plugin developers. Currently, X-Plane is what it is and we have all to cope with it."

All the rest of your reply would have just been deleted by the PR department or CM of any organisation that communicates with customers.  

[Ben Russell]

Perhaps you have simply worn out our patience with your endless requests for perfection when it was made clear from the outset that there are limits and you'll have to live with them.

You keep nit-picking the product and recieving the same basic reply: "There are technical limitations. We all have to live with them."

 

Here is your earliest thread, which was addressed with due consideration and respect.

 

 

[Ben Russell]

The difference between gritty one on one with your developers and faceless mega corps with PR departments who don't actually give a shit about you beyond ad-rev comes down to this;

 

[Cameron]

53 minutes ago, branislavmilic said:

And if I was in your team, I would reply like this to my initial post

You're so keen to dish out advice, but not so keen to think before you type your initial gripes. I could go on and on about how YOU could have posted something in a much better manner of wording rather than tell us how easy it should be (when you clearly don't know what the limitations are).

Marketing departments exist in the corporate world, and for good reason. You get one on one interaction here, but just as much as you're human, so are we. Use it wisely.

That's the end of this topic.