greggerm

(Tic-tac comment here, but can someone update this thread's title to read "10.20b1" instead of r1? Had me hook, line, and sinker that a "release candidate" had been released. Had to roll back to the beginning of the thread to realize it was an old one.)

I prefer my own photograph of the 'original' lady in question.... Showing her sassy side... At least the airplane is in X-Plane!

For kicks and giggles, you should create an alternate version with the runway all torn up.

Jared, I agree! The scenery world in X-Plane 10 is a double-edged sword... on the one hand, the simulation has a fantastic engine behind the scenes to display great detail with great overall performance... but on the other hand, there are weaknesses in the global scenery and at airports which can ruin the flight sim experience. I DO NOT want to dissuade you from your goals, or otherwise dampen your enthusiasm, but the project you are suggesting is a very very ambitious one. Not only does it require expertise in modeling, texturing, and design... but it also requires actual feet-on-the-ground to gather photos for textures, data, and other elements at each of the airports you'd want to re-do. Perhaps taking a different tack is in order - rather than aiming for perfection at each of these airports, maybe it's better to follow MSFS's lead and go for a little quantity over absolute quality. Rather than pushing for fully custom buildings and textures, using X-Plane's built-in object libraries and facades can help turn these airports around far faster. Rather than using photoreal ground textures, perhaps it's best to stick with the default ground, because you never know when they will get around to adding seasonal textures (nothing looks worse than snowy default ground blending into summertime photoreal near an airport) If you haven't yet, I'd recommend getting your feet wet with WED 1.2 (Download Link, Manual Link), the airport design tool used with X-Plane. Pick a smaller municipal airport in your area and give it a re-work... fixing the taxiways, runways, adding signs, objects... This will give you an idea as to what is involved in doing a small airfield. From there, you can imagine how much work might be needed for a big one. Getting the layout of the airport right can take some time... and that's before even putting in a single object. Here's an example screenshot... I re-did my local airport (KPVD, of FS2004's FlightZone1 fame) using WED and only default objects. No, it certainly isn't perfect, but it is FAR FAR better than the bleak and desolate landscape which existed prior to my work. It's not photoreal, and it's not 100% reality, but it is very good looking - far better than what default MSFS has provided in that location, I might add! By using standard elements and nothing custom, I probably saved days, if not months, of additional work. Another fringe benefit of using only X-Plane 10 objects and tools (nothing custom) is that Laminar Research is hoping to develop a clearinghouse for designers like you and I to submit our work for inclusion in the master X-Plane airport database. Instead of having to download these airports individually, these improved airports would be sent out as part of XP10 itself. In order to participate in that future program, the airport must be made of standard, default objects and items - nothing custom... When this program will get started is anyone's guess, but if one uses custom buildings and textures, the airport would not be eligible for inclusion. Like you, I was appalled by the state of affairs at the default airports... once I got over that shock, I started learning WED and adjusting my local airports to match reality as best as I can in the hopes that someday my work can be included in the master database. In fact, because of X-Plane 10's current weaknesses, I find it more enjoyable to design in XP10 than fly. I really only start the sim to see what my design work looks like! So far, I've redone all the paved airports in my little state of Rhode Island, and a few others I've had an interest in. I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but my first impression when reading your plans were that it's a project that is both sorely needed, but also a very very time-consuming. I'm throwing out another idea for you which might be a little more realistic to achieve, and it might also garner more participation from other designers as it doesn't require the expertise of modeling and texturing. Just food for thought!! Carry on!! -Greg

No sir... WED will help you create 'custom scenery' versions of airports... it won't destroy the default representations or be destroyed by future updates. Custom scenery airports merely replace the defaults when the sim is run. If you put the time and effort into recreating an airport in WED, it won't go to waste if the default airport is ever updated - you'll still have your work to fly to and from. With WED, you can redo any of the airports you've mentioned which got borked, adding back in windsocks and beacons, as well as laying down the proper taxiway layouts and markings... and if you get good at it, even submit your work to Robin. The next time X-Plane does an update of the default airports, your work could be included as the new representation of the airfield! (*Theres a bit more to it than that, but reading the tutorials, blogs, and forum posts should give you a good stepping stone towards working with WED.) Quite frankly, I spend far more time in WED than I do actually flying in X-Plane. The simulation is lacking many elements for me, but for some strange reason, I like the process of recreating an airport... it's bizarrely entertaining for me, believe it or not. I'm no expert by any stretch, but I'm doing OK with it so far... Any more scenery discussions and this might be a candidate to move to the scenery design forum. -Greg -Greg

Edwin - I've removed the apt.dat file in my main install, and I ran the updater to have it plop in the factory default one for 10.11. As it happens, the 10.11 apt.dat file is exactly the same size (91,202kb) as the one issued by Robin Peel earlier in the year, so they are synchronized. Checking in WED, S31 as of this current version indeed does NOT have windsocks, PAPI, or an airport beacon. ~ ~ ~ I just installed a temporary second install, which I'll keep at virgin defaults... Checking in WED, S31 in the DVD version, it DOES have beacon, PAPI, and windsocks present. ~ ~ ~ It would appear that the "new" airport data file from this summer does not have the elements mentioned in it. I can't fathom why, unless the algorithm that Robin Peel uses to automatically create airport layouts was tweaked and the airports you are visiting were processed differently. I'm not sure where this leaves you - you're not going crazy.. at least with S31, the current airport data does not have those scenery elements built in. I'm not an X-Plane aficionado, so I don't really know who to bring this issue up to - perhaps Robin? ~ ~ ~ Since I had the time (*and a small finger of Jack Daniels in a cup in front of me), I decided to give S31 a quick once-over in WED. I've attached a custom version of S31 based on an aerial shot. Took me all of 30 minutes, with my wife occasionally interrupting! Take a look at the tutorials and give WED a shot - you might be able to recreate, and perhaps greatly improve, the airports you fly into. My work is a bit quick n' dirty, so feel free to adjust and improve as you see fit. (Note that S31 doesn't have taxi lights - they have taxi reflectors at the actual airfield, so I did not include blue taxiway lighting per reality) -Greg S31.zip

I'll try to take a look inside WED at your example sites later on tonight once home and settled in. (*Unless someone else beats me to it) For confirmation, what is your "airport detail" setting at within the rendering options. I know you indicate you haven't changed anything, but maybe an update changed it for you... but that wouldn't explain why you continue to see them at other airports (hmm). Your first screenshot - that's XP10, correct? Did you happen to download any updated airport information from Robin Peel's site? I'm wondering if there's some discrepancies there, too. Let see what we can find out... -Greg

Most X-Plane airports, especially backwoods and relatively quiet ones, are generated in large part by an automatic system. In these cases, X-Plane only knows about the runway location, heading, and length, and the automated tool builds in a really basic taxiway layout... this usually includes windsocks. I would imagine that the airports you are flying to indeed do have windsocks, but somehow aren't being displayed. In the rendering areas, check your airport scenery details - perhaps it's set too low to see windsocks. If that doesn't seem to be the issue and you see socks at most other airports, send over a few ICAO airport codes of airstrips you don't see windsocks at... some of us can open it up in WED (World Editor) to see if they even exist at the default airport... or, if you're willing to give it a go, you can download and use WED 1.2b1 yourself and do the same thing! (*You can also use WED to add windsocks in, should you feel the airport needs it!) -Greg

Chris Serio has posted some video tutorials (screencasts) for creating functional ATC pathways on the ground while using WED1.2b1. The series is worth watching if you are spending any time editing airports in WED. I just laid down a network of taxiway paths in my project airport quickly and easily knowing how it's done and what the fields mean. http://developer.x-p...rldeditor-v1-2/ Enjoy! -Greg

I'll be watching this one. While I don't fly X-Plane hardly at all, I've "driven by" KLEB on 89 countless numbers of times and have a soft spot for it. I'll grab this once it's done for certain. Good luck!

Remember - with more updates comes more familiarity with them, The news of your continued development becomes expected rather than properly appreciated. Fewer updates at wider intervals might do a better job at teasing the user base, and help maintain interest in the process. I'm sure everyone who's interested is still viewing and enjoying the updates provided, but with so many updates happening, it becomes a more passive event. Hang back on the next (2) updates you would normally have provided, and then wow everyone with the 3rd.

You can start by looking at the OSM homepage at http://www.openstreetmap.org. They have a built in editor right in the browser called Potlatch which is suitable for small tweaks like what you're describing. After you read a bit more about how it works and gain experience, you might find one of the stand-alone editors useful. I should warn you - it can become addictive to add in and correct data in the OSM world! -Greg

Ah ha - I would have thought they would pull the "r3" designation and just leave it at a nice clean 10.10 once it was declared final, but I see they do things differently here in the X-Plane world. Thanks for the pointers, and the wiki link to the release notes! Now lets see if they can get moving on the scenery improvements they've been promising! Thanks! -Greg

You sure? I just attempted an update and 10.10r3 remains in place. It's also not noted in the dev blog, which is usually the go-to place for news of such things. -Greg

Be sure to also jump into OpenStreetMap and adjust the source data, so that when Laminar Research updates the road data, you won't have to worry about the exclusion zone anymore. (*And take a look around your local area too! Make sure local ponds, lakes, and roads all look about right!) Such changes won't show up in X-Plane until Laminar recuts all the scenery files, but it can help refine the process!

Yes, the claim of infringement is based on Laminar "making, using, offering for sale, selling and/or importing Android based applications for use on cellular phones and/or tablet devices that require communication with a server to perform a license check to prevent the unauthorized use of said application, including, but not limited to, X-Plane." The patent claim only affects Austin's Android product.

Somewhere in Europe, given the OSM2XP usage...

Absolutely no new features other than the completion of what has been discussed as hopes, wishes, and "we expect to's" for XP10, along with the hiring of at least 6-12 more capable programmers to bolster the ranks. They coding staff right now are absolutely expert in what they are doing, but there is so much unfinished business directly related not to the skill of the team, but to the pure lack of hours in the day.

Thanks for the input, gentlemen! -Greg

Helpful advisors of X-Pilot.Com - I am potentially in the market to do some system updating in light of my current systems bottlenecks and hangups with XP10. As it stands today, I am pleased with how my system runs MS Flight Simulator X and various other games and entertainment titles, but XP10 is bogging down and I have it on decent authority and research that it is probably my GPU causing the bulk of the issue. I'm running an i7 860 (2.8ghz Lynnfield generation) with 8GB RAM and an nVidia GTX 260, Windows 7 x64 Pro. My two choices: Update the current system to a GTX 670 for lots of money... Update the current system with a new i7 3820 & motherboard AND the GTX 670 for even more money. Obviously the best bet for pure performance is the whole shebang, but it's just about twice the price. I love me some new computer hardware, but I need to be budget minded for the first time in my life. I can swing the full update, but I guess I'd rather not if I can avoid it right now. With XP10 being more GPU-centric than CPU-centric, will a video card update in this case improve my XP10 performance, or will I be attaching a fire hose to a household spigot - not being able to take advantage of what the GTX 670 can do because of a weaker CPU? Thoughts, gurus? -Greg

The more people who edit the database to add in their local water bodies and mentions their interest in getting this data into the sim to Laminar Research, the better! They should see that there are willing participants who are actively improving the source data which they used to create XP10's scenery world, and we'd love to have our work count for something above and beyond just improving the OSM maps. I'd have never edited a single node in OSM if it weren't for X-Plane 10 using that data! -Greg

Thanks for the info, Tom - With that being the case I'll probably just submit a bugtrack ticket on the scenery tools tracker to log the suggestion. It's not a terribly important item, but could be a nice step towards reducing some confusion. -Greg

Tom (et al), Who is responsible for maintaining/updating the new WED manual (as of June 2012) which has been linked in the thread? I've got a small suggestion for information that should be added to the document to help alleviate some confusion that I actually encountered when working through the "tutorial" style lessons it provides. -Greg (The suggestion is: The demonstration of features/tutorial jumps into creating and editing taxiways and runways on top of an orthophoto guide before explaining how to get a guide photo into the editor. I think it would be advantageous to either have the instructions on laying down an orthophoto for guide purposes first, or at least point the reader to the appropriate section of the manual where orthophotos are discussed so they can get their guide images in place.)

Being a demo user only, I can't opine on any differences between a standard disk and an SSD with XP10's full edition, but I did try this out on the demo to see what, if anything, would be different. There was a very slight improvement in loading times, and essentially no change in overall sim performance. I'm not sure if the full version will cause this loading time difference to become more pronounced, but it made only a modest difference which didn't seem entirely worth the space it takes up on the expensive SSD storage. -Greg