KirkR

Yep, times have changed. Permanent no smoking on board.

Searching for documentation of the HUD, the best I have found so far is a Collins document on smartcockpit.com that while not the exact same model, has the detailed definitions of the symbology that I believe are applicable (for our simulated world in the CL60). The display and symbology is pretty close (PRI mode). https://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/HGS_00_Pilots_Guide_CRJ_00.pdf This guide is located in the CRJ 700 documents (right side). Excerpt from section 4 follows (a few terms I wanted to read up on).

Fantastic. Thanks for posting these. I would be happy to convert your photos to JPEG, could provide a Dropbox to post them into. Don't hesitate to ask.

I got the Airbus throttle set. Problems were the very small size, and the TO/GA buttons were designed where they were sticking out of the sides of the handles rather than being slightly recessed, and were accidentally hit on a regular basis. Anticipating that the above mentioned ones will address both of these issues.

Also note that a simple, cheap twist-capable joystick can easily be configured as the steering tiller. It really brings additional realism (when taxiing). If anyone would like details of how I configured it for the 650, let me know.

Thanks for the feedback, I will try that. Note that even after the brightness out the front window went away, the lighting inside the cockpit remained. Nonetheless, hopefully cycling the lights will help mitigate it. XP12 possibly will also improve this as well.

Curious, where did you find these pages for the 650? Also, from what I've heard from Challenger pilots, they indicate that the ATS button is rarely used for takeoff purposes. I'm trying to align to the IRL process as much as possible. But it is good to know that this works after the second try. I have the following throttle add-on (for the Thrustmaster Bravo throttle quadrant) ordered, which will provide larger handles, as well as 2 TO/GA buttons (one on right I will make the ATS Disc). This also should improve the realism. Airbus A320 Throttle Detent Set Gated Flaps and Speedbrake - Etsy Kirk

Night flight KORD to KMBS, few layers during climb and descent. About 4 times during flight the following occurred: - initially a very bright white outside the front windshield - 15-20 seconds later the cockpit interior was suddenly as light as daytime (see picture below) - Outside the front of the plane it went back to normal dark, while the interior remained bright - About 2 minutes later, the interior went back to normal nighttime lighting The interior and overhead lighting controls were not changed during flight. First couple of times I've seen this occur (both today), through well over 100 flights. Any guidance regarding what this might be? Or possibly it just needs a restart of XPlane.

Possible "work-around" procedure as follows: 1> Access a saved state (that is from a different location, let's say KDTW) 2> Save the state in the current location (which is different from the state in item 1). 3> Start a new flight, selecting the saved state (item 2), and use the location as saved with the state I find that TO/GA functions without issue from my initial testing. Lets see what results @flyingfudge gets. Possibly this will help the Hot Start team further isolate the root cause. Much good has come out of this, it helped me refocus on learning the aircraft by hand flying takeoffs which is appropriate. I call this a workaround, because it allows me to confidently start a live ATC flight where I do not have time to go from Cold & Dark, and I need to know that TO/GA is going to operate without failure on takeoff (barring something "unusual occurring"). I fly this aircraft almost daily and I cannot commend the Hot Start team enough. Brilliant piece of work all the way around. My IRL Hawker 800XP pilot friend marvels at it every time he drops over.

Will XP12 have the EVS camera capability?

Wow, I did not realize that the HUD could show terrain at nighttime. Will have to study how to configure that. Fantastic. Imbedding images involves the following steps: 1 - drag the images (or choose them 2 - put the cursor where you want them to come into the text, then click on the image below.

It is fantastic to see these real life pictures. Do you happen to have the heads up display? And any pictures of the front and rear gear bays would also be great, as well as the wings. Please note that there are some of us out here who have a bucket list item of being able one day to walk around and sit in the cockpit of a Challenger. So thanks again for sharing. Yet, if I never am able to achieve that, the Hot Start team has given me the next best thing ... ! Kirk

Please also note that there are now 5 total pins to remove, 3 of which are associated with the front gear. 1 as identified in the above video, and 2 additional ones including a safety pin to protect maintenance personnel or others going into the front gear bay while the door is open (unanticipated door closure). Otherwise, if all else fails, try restarting XPlane. Sometimes when starting the Challenger from a saved state, multiple times (such as when practicing certain things repetitively), I find that some things start to have issues; restarting XP often corrects this. Please report back what the resolution ended up being for you. I expect the switch setting per Pils is it.

Problem recurred for me as well, specifically when doing two things: 1). using a saved state 2) at a different location (unchecking the location box, using the location selected in XP11) Kirk

Good News: Slower throttle push/progression, saved state issue may be resolved. As VictoryAJ advised, I have been using a slower progression on the throttles when I have TO/GA set for takeoff (and in general), targeting 7 seconds as suggested (for ATS to automatically activate), and consistent with the video inside of the CL60 actual aircraft cockpit that was posted). In doing so, ATS is activating as desired/designed. As such, there may be no link to the use of a saved state. flyingfudge - as you have been seeing the same issue with saved states, I am curious if you can give this a try as well. If you and I get consistent results, then I think possibly others may benefit from this information.

Yes I absolutely am shooting for the practices that are used IRL, and appreciate the level of detail that you have provided - Thank You. I will adjust my approach accordingly. Also sounds like there is a "saved state" issue that is the root cause of the weird disconnect I'm seeing (not the one related to exceeding N1 limit). So I'll count today as a double step forward. Will be interested to understand if the Hot Start team believes the state-issue can be resolved. For my live-ATC flying, I'll just use the discipline of starting from cold-dark status, which is good practice.

Rastuasi: I have had this issue occur when pressing TO/GA before taxi as well. Pils: Understood, it was just a continuing effort to try to isolate the cause. My theory is that it has to do with starting from a saved state. Indeed I have had this issue occur when the saved state already had the TO/GA pressed as it was pre-taxi, well past the point of the checklist showing TO/GA engaged (before engine start). I remain in a deep learning status at present, meaning that I'm practicing many things, and starting from cold/dark every time is not practical. For planned non training flights (so to speak), starting cold and dark is no issue, and I doubt I would see this occur in that scenario. flyingfudge: Yes, let's continue to compare notes on this, maybe we will develop a "best practice" with the aide of Pils and team, as the use of states is of high value with this kind of simulation model. I think I am approaching 350+ hours in it now, live ATC with this jet (single pilot) is fantastic, not for the faint of heart.

FYI, I am now using a button on the yoke and the issue has resolved. There must have been a conflicting key sequence.

Continuing information collection on this issue, which I am believing is a bug: a corporate pilot who flies various jets including the Challenger series, indicated that their procedure for takeoff w/ ATS, is to bring the throttles up to 25% then press TO/GA. I tried this approach but two issues: 1) With this procedure, you cannot proactively engage NAV due to the Challenger quirk regarding FD having to be off before engaging TO/GA 2) The unexpected ATS sudden blink and disconnect shortly after TO/GA engagement still occurs with this procedure. Looking for feedback from Hot Start on this one, it's becoming a problem, especially when flying on live ATC. Yes I can fly w/o TO/GA on takeoff, but I'm the kind of person who likes to identify root causes, and I've had corporate pilots sitting next to me at the simulator and they are not identifying mistakes that I'm making (wish they did and we'd put this to rest). Surprised others are not reporting this. Am I the only one? Log.txt

Thanks so much for taking the time to reference that section in the 605 document. I should have found that as I do have that document. Kirk

Looking for assistance to identify why minimums would be reported lower than expected. Scenario is: KMBS ILS 23 No ATIS - used std BARO 29.92. (note also had same result @ KDTW using the ATIS reported altimeter) Set RA and RA in REFS config (noted that no warnings occur when setting to BARO, but I believe RA radar alt is the correct one to use generally?) Following images and video show more supporting detail. Are both BARO and RA operational in the simulation (per comment above)? Is there supposed to be a visual indication of the decision height on the PFD when these are configured? Supporting visuals/video: Be sure to use settings to maximize resolution for the video. HD should be available by the time anyone pulls this up. As always, thank you.

I think I now have a reproducible/repeatable scenario for this issue, as demonstrated in this additional video. Involves a saved state at airport A (KDTW for me), with a change in position (KORD), a fresh flight plan and performance init/takeoff data, loading V speeds, and then setting TO/GA after lining up on the runway. The state starts from near the beginning of the pre-taxi checklist, then a short taxi from GA ramp to KORD 27C, then the issue on takeoff roll. Short video, set it to the highest resolution for clarity. I'm on macOS Monterey on strong hardware (M1 Ultra), 1.6.1 CL650. Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Thrustmaster pendulum pedals. RealSimGear G1000 suite configured to CL650. xPilot, Volanta plug-ins. That's about it, and this gear has been reliable other than this specific issue.

The thing with the TO/GA and ATS-disc buttons on the sides of the two Airbus levers, is that the lever handles are really small and you really have to be careful not to accidentally push one of the two side buttons. The shapes are like cones where the two buttons are located, rather than having the buttons recessed inside of larger handles. Nonetheless, I haven't switched back to the Commercial ones yet. Still giving them some time. It's as close to the CL-650 as any throttles out there.

I have finally been able to capture an unexpected issue with ATS disengagement quickly after pushing the throttles forward after engaging TO/GA mode on takeoff. What is not so easy to see as it occurs very quickly, is a second or two after pushing the throttles forward, the ATS LED's on either side of the button "blink" and simultaneously the ATS 2-line textual display goes blank, and then I'm back to manual throttle control. In this case I pushed the throttles full forward. Most of the time, pushing them full forward (with TO/GA engaged) works perfectly as ATS engages, stays engaged and the takeoff sequence is as expected /designed. I typically use a saved state (all of my states were created on a freshly created airframe with the latest release, 1.6.1 I believe). I then reset FMS, set up the flight plan, PERF INIT, PERF TAKEOFF (from which I SEND V speeds which are correctly displayed on the PFD). I have reproduced this behavior with TO/GA engaged either before or after sending the takeoff V speeds, no difference in behavior. So I don't think when I send V speeds impacts this issue with respect to when I push the TO/GA button before takeoff roll. I have tried a variety of things in order to isolate the cause, each time thinking that I figured it out and then it recurred. Things like the timing of when FD is turned off (relative to sending V speeds for example), and TO/GA not engaged until after the V speeds are loaded, and lined up on the runway (normal procedure). Other notes: - I usually load new FMS information into the CDU (flight plan, PERF INIT, PERF TAKEOFF) and SEND V speeds before engaging TO/GA. My comment on the video about having V speeds loaded with the saved state is not relevant for this reason, so disregard that part). - No, I am not accidentally pressing an ATS DISC button, it actually is one of the buttons on the back of the Honeycomb Bravo throttle quadrant. I do have Airbus throttles on the way as they have 2 ATS-disconnect buttons (one on each throttle), and I'll make the pilot side one TO/GA, but this is not relevant for this issue. Note (edit to the above on July 25): - I have evaluated whether pushing the throttles full forward (before ATS auto-engages) could be a cause or contributor to this behavior. I believe I have proven that this is not the case / not the cause. ATS engages (as a result of TO/GA armed) before the manual throttle push can exceed the N1 limit, as far as I can tell, which makes sense to me. - I changed my airport location from KDTW (where my pre-taxi state is saved) to KORD (and used the state, but without location). The first takeoff attempt had this issue occur. Made me wonder if using a saved state without location could be related to this issue. I'll have to see if I can reproduce that behavior or not. I do not think this consistently leads to the issue. Feedback on this would be highly valued! To see the detail in the video, click the Youtube settings and select the highest video quality.

JJM - YES - the link you provided is fantastic! Thanks so much for finding/sharing this! Hopefully others will also find this thread. Pils - I would suggest that this documentation is so good, that possibly finding a way to highlight this content more prevalently would be of high value to the Hot Start CL-650 community. Kirk