KirkR

Curious, have any others noticed that the front gear remains down when viewing a flight in replay mode? I'm well aware of the various/many issues with recording / playback. Just was curious if this was a known issue when rewinding a flight to play back aspects of it before closing down the flight at the end. Main gear are shown as up and then being dropped, but front just seems to remain down. X-Plane issue assumed. Better in XP12 ... we'll see. Kirk

Per the Challenger 650 Flight Crew Operations Manual (for Simulation/Entertainment Purposes Only):

An additional question for the CL60 pilots - regarding speed refs during the above scenario, and in the context of single pilot operations (sim): - How do you get the Vspeeds set up so that you can quickly switch between landing and takeoff speeds? What I mean is, there are speeds that things occur at during the GA, such as flaps 30, gear up, flaps 20, flaps up. But right before this you have the landing REFS set up on the speed tape. And then you switch back to landing for the second approach attempt. Is this something that the PM is focused on doing on the CDU to load the speeds up for the PF? Any suggestions for single pilot in the sim?

Indeed, I verified this with the sim. Thanks very much for all of the assistance! This was a very interesting one, several key learnings. One day soon I will generate a video for the community that demonstrates the MAP, HOLD and then vector back to re-shoot the approach Kirk

Hello VictoryAJ. I have never selected anything with the right seat to date in my flying of the CL60. Never had an issue with capturing ILS or RNAV approaches. But this scenario (a second approach attempt after MAP) is the new twist versus all prior flying. So I'm interested in your question, and can re-try and keep an eye on that and will report back.

Unfortunately, applying the above adjustments DID NOT correct this issue. I have a video that is presently being processed on Youtube so it will take maybe an hour+ to process the HD version. Linked below. What I did: - PFD NAV source FMS1 - loaded the approach when exiting the hold - DIR TO w/ INTC CRS of 233 (approach hdg) - HDG mode (vectors) to 30 deg intercept - APPR armed Same result, did not do the NAV-NAV transfer.

Thanks to both of you for the replies. Another day and another step forward.

I am consistently finding that I am unable to capture the ILS approach after executing an approach and MAP. I have captured this in a video. There are several things in this video that I would like to highlight: - as part of the GA/MAP I set AP and NAV, but if I switch the PFD Nav Source back to FMS after arming NAV, it disarms NAV as you can see in the video. Is this the expected behavior? If so then I should reset the Nav Source before arming NAV. - my assumption is that it does not matter if I execute the EXIT HOLD instruction or not, and then subsequently use HDG mode to vector back for the next ILS approach, as mentioned in the video. - what is the correct method to set up the FMS for the subsequent approach? I basically reselect the approach, but is there a better way? - you'll see that the aircraft flies right through the localizer the second time. Did I do something incorrectly? Or is this a sim issue? - yes, I do drop the recording view to include the PFD/MFD soon after the first approach! Set the recording settings to the highest resolution to see the details clearly. Hoping for guidance on this one, as I've tried it multiple times with the same result.

Thanks for clarifying. Can you help me understand how the system is set up in terms of the sequencing, and how it aligns to the process of doing a MAP HOLD, and then shooting another approach? For example, what is the purpose of the "Immediate Return" ... and how does the current sim function in terms of checklists after the MAP HOLD when returning? I assume Descent and In Range are no longer required at this point, only Before Landing. But how does the sim checklist process work in this scenario?

GA's really take some practice to get the fast moving process down. From my practice, I lean away from using the GA checklist, with one reason being that I do not prefer how it chooses FLC, but also because so many things occur so quickly and pressing next checklist item button so many times during that intense process is not ideal. The issue I run into occurs after the HOLD (MAP) when I vector myself (HDG) for the same approach again. The issue I am running into is that "Set GA Thrust" suddenly "jumps in" at a time where it is the least expected (when moving to the Before Landing checklist after the GA and HOLD, as I am re-establishing on the ILS approach again). I will outline some aspects of my process as follows: - shoot normal ILS approach (descent, in range, before landing checklists were all used) - MA initiated (TO/GA + ATS-disc, flaps 30, gear up, flaps 20, flaps up, AP + NAV, re-establish ATS, pattern altitude captured, enter MAP HOLD. No checklist used. - Exit HOLD, HDG for vectors back to re-shoot approach - On 30 deg intercept crs for ILS, at appropriate altitude for intercept, just outside of IF - Select "Next Checklist" from top menu, initiates Before Landing checklist. This is when "Set Takeoff Thrust" appears, TO thrust is automatically set by the system, and everything now is screwed up. Note: it seems that after a MA, any time that I use Next Checklist to bring up the next checklist, that the "Set Takeoff Thrust" action is taken by the system. It's like it isn't handling when I skip the GA checklist and is dead set on initiating GA Thrust itself regardless, but triggered by "Next Checklist." My goal has been to generate a clean, representative video of the GA and subsequent re-shoot approach scenario to post in the forum. But there are aspects of the process that I need to understand in order to make this work properly. I presently do leverage the checklists, with the one exception being the GA checklist. It seems that possibly I may have created a problem by doing it manually and not using it. It would be of high value if there is documentation that helps with understanding of the GA process (how the sim is set up with respect to use of the checklists, or skipping of the checklists) including the subsequent re-shoot of the approach, and possibly from this information I can figure out the issue. Let me know what additional questions I can answer to help shed light on it. Thanks

Thanks for the added speed profile and RX (runway extension) perspectives. For sure 4nm vs 3nm is a pilot decision (not an online ATC one) in terms of executing the visual approach, and flying the sim jets without any "feel" and with more limited "visibility" to the environment would further suggest that 3nm for other than straight in is not an appropriate RX distance for most of us in the sim world. Thanks again!

Ok, I reflew just as you described, 5nm abeam of KFNT (to the west) downwind, indeed vertical nav did initiate (as soon as the aircraft was established on the 095 int crs to the 005 final crs). I believe I may have assumed it was not going to descend given that TOD was "behind" the aircraft when turning to the 095 int crs and so I must have previously switched to VS mode. Edit: I just tried this using a 3NM RX, 3000 ft abeam on downwind. I found that I needed to get the altitude down on downwind (2400) and get the speed down as well, and then VNAV worked as designed. Trying it from 3000 on downwind did not work. But from 2400 did. I think it's a matter of tuning between altitude and speed. I can tell if it's going to work based on how far TOD is out to the west on the intercept course. the further out it goes, the less likely it's going to be able to bring the plane down as needed. Will be interesting to see if the TOD is positioned this way in a real life scenario. This brings me to an additional question for you: What is your speed management profile for this specific approach? I'm still learning in this area. I would reduce from my descent speed to 180kt w/ 20deg flaps @ 3000, then 30deg flaps and 160 just before the turn to 095 (base), then full flaps and 150 before the turn to 005, dropping the gear during the turn and reducing to landing speed (Vref+X). What if you're on the tighter 3nm RX with a turn from base? Kirk

I think my comment was not correct for two reasons. I meant NAV-VNAV, but I believe APPR-VNAV could be used as well. So you also saw the TOD off to the right. I'll run through it again to see if it captures the vertical even though TOD is depicted off to the west of where the turn to base occurs.

N1 settings get changed as part of the After Takeoff checklist. If you select PERF you will see the N1 limit change to CLB during that particular checklist item being performed by the PM (pilot monitoring) / FO (first officer). The following video by Reflected Reality demonstrates this phase of flight (takeoff) and it covers all of the above (N1, SYNC, etc.).

@VictoryAJ, ***. Edited - looks like I figured this out, that I needed to get my altitude down below 2600 on the downwind (southward) leg in order to get TOD out in front enough (on the base leg) to activate. Staying at 2600 until the NAV guided turn onto the base, even though TOD was a little further down base, evidently was not sufficient. Maybe the aircraft was not "established" on the base leg on which TOD was shown, sufficiently enough to be able to have the aircraft initiate the VNAV descent. *** Text below was entered before the above was determined in a subsequent flight/test. A follow-up question for you after practicing the visuals today. Coming in to KFNT (Flint, MI) from the opposite direction (from the north), vectored to downwind for visual approach to 36, I set RX @ 4nm, DIR to the RX @ 095 (approach crs is 005), RNAV apch (no ILS). So this is NAV-NAV per our dialog above. My question regards VNAV and TOD. My altitude coming into the downwind is 3000 which causes the TOD to be a little west of where I will enter (turn into) the 095 DIR-TO the RX, so VNAV does not initiate (yes I did spin to 0 proactively). So I have to push it down using VS. Did I do something incorrectly or do I need to get down to pattern altitude sooner? Sometimes ATC may not get you down as quickly as you would like, their own task saturation possibly. Note that I did additional tests and even getting down to 2600 on the downwind leg, with TOD showing as after turning onto the base, it still did not initiate the descent w/ VNAV. So obviously something that I'm not setting up properly. I did not include JORDI and 2400 in the plan as the base to final turn is 4nm which is about 2100 ft fyi. Possibly this is a scenario where APPR would be used after the aircraft turns onto base? But APPR may not deal with the 90 deg turn so well? So this probably isn't the solution? Thanks for guidance. This is fun stuff to practice.

The combination of the fully functional CL60 simulation, and the above perspectives and details - are of high value and lay out a very nice set of training scenarios. And in an affordable manner (I haven't gotten any fuel or maintenance bills from flying the Hot Start CL60 yet. Indeed I will follow up after exercising these scenarios further based on the guidance. Once again, Thank You!

I find that a visual approach in the sim is not often so easy due to things like resolution, not having side windows, and just task saturation for a single pilot process. Yet on online ATC we need to be able to do these in a proficient manner. As I have been practicing these (CL60), I wanted to share my process(es), hoping to generate some feedback from the actual Challenger pilots on the forum who are also using the sim (and others as well). Scenario 1 (IFR flight, VFR conditions @ airport, ATC vectoring for visual apch, not a familiar airport, ILS not in operation): - Select Visual Approach in FMS and possibly adjust the distance (defaults to 5 nm). - arm NAV and APPR - ALT set down to the ground (I believe this is req'd w/ "Visual Approach" in FMC) - VNAV armed (is this req'd for the simulated GP to display in the "Visual Apch" mode?) - AP and ATS deactivated Practice coming in from various directions. Lateral and vertical guidance are displayed (as an aide/reference but not "flown") Scenario 2 (same as 1, except ILS is in operation - Select the ILS approach in FMS (rather than Visual Apch) and use it as a reference, similar to Scenario 1 - rest is the same except ALT does not have to be set down to the ground, and VNAV does not have to be activated What techniques does the CL60 community use for visual approaches to unfamiliar airports when under ATC guidance, with the CL60?

The above reference helped me understand why I develop an imbalance on the ground. The APU's fuel source is from the right main tank, and that is indeed the one that goes lower when I am sitting in the plane continuing to learn its systems after I have started the engines. If I had to pay for the gas and maintenance then this would be self correcting!

Following up regarding the Airbus throttle detent set. Bottom line is that they are a very positive step forward toward realism. Notes: - they are an add-on and require the Honeycomb Bravo Airbus 320 throttle set, and then you transfer the sensor/circuit to the larger throttle handles and install them. Easy procedure, needs a very small Phillips head screwdriver and pair of pliers. Very good short YouTube video for installation provided. - the two blue "guides" for the flaps and air brakes, are optional. And indeed these do not work for the Challenger because evidently the Airbus must have four flap positions as there are four stop points for flaps. So I tried them but quickly removed them (the blue guides) - the TO/GA buttons are partly recessed in the sides of the throttle handles, which is a big improvement over the Honeycomb Airbus throttles. - I configured the left button as TO/GA, right one as ATS-disc, using the CL60 commands - throttle handles are much larger, and from the pictures I have seen, are much closer to the size of the actual throttle handles in the CL60 - thrust reversers - the one thing that is desirable from the Honeycomb Airbus throttles, is the catch that requires pulling the reverser levers up before pushing the throttles back for reverser activation. This works great. Pros: see above Cons: total cost (Honeycomb Airbus throttles plus the Airbus 320 throttle detent kit). Easily justified, due to the resulting step up in realism, for those of us who spend so many hours with this fantastic aircraft and simulation. Install video: Two products:

No doubt, many other Sim pilots will appreciate the time you took to go through that detail, as much as I do. Thanks so much.

Question about end of the day checklist when you are going to leave the aircraft overnight. Do you install all five pins (3 nose wheel / chamber, 1 each main gear), and at what point do you do that in the checklist/process? I assume that with a FO plus ground crew, it's not the process of going out and then back in like it is for the simulation (due to one pilot).

One thing I just noticed is the red light top of the main body is on after finishing the checklists, battery was shut off before exiting the plane and closing the door. See the picture below. Not sure how evident it will be. Could have been a reflection. This is absolutely not a complaint ... just wanted to make you aware of what I noticed.

DSPL MENU button has the various report options. All set.

Just before completing the Securing Checklist, after the Battery is turned off, it lists Service Lights off. How are the service lights turned off?

From a picture in a real Challenger, I was trying to pull up a similar waypoint report on the lower MFD display, but am not finding it. Please advise if this is possible, and how to access. I tried the CDU but that only provides the Summary display.