Sepecat Jaguar

[Airbus]

Sorry I hope you don't mind me hot linking your images! But GOOOD LORD!

[Tonka]

Of course I don't mind Mr Airbus Sir! :-)

Mr ScotchEgg, achieving a good frame rate is always on my mind. X-plane, on 3 year old hardware can handle millions of vertices. By the time the Jaguar is finished, current tech will chew through it with ease, and if it doesn't, it's easy to remove some detail. Adding more detail is a lot harder though.

Cheers

[guym-p]

Stunning.  Simply stunning.  

 

As for frame rates, the depth and quality of Tonka's work goes so far beyond expectations that the question is no longer whether the polygon count or texture detail is low enough to run on my computer, but what computer I must buy to run the Jaguar.

 

Guy.

[Hueyman]

We had those in Armée de l'Air, so I am interested in this one, seeing the level of detail

 

Good luck Tonka

[Tonka]

Thanks all!

 

Hueyman, i am still deliberating making the French version. I'm happy to make the original nose ( the one without the chisel nose ) but the cockpit instrumentation concerns me, as i recall the Armée de l'Air Jaguars had a very different cockpit compared to the RAF GR1's.

 

Do you happen to know of any good resource material for building the French cockpit that I might use to help me make a decision about the French version at a later date?

 

Guy, what a lovely comment, thank you. I think i might have to quote that a lot in the future.

 

Current VRAM usage is 82.61mb with Texture compression enabled, and 132.54mb with compression disabled. 

[scotchegg]

Been a few months. What's cooking?

[Tonka]

 

http://x-planejag.blogspot.co.uk/

[scotchegg]

Looking very good Mr T. Next job, cockpit textures.

[TinCam]

Hi Tonka,

 

Thanks for posting this incredible work. I'm just getting started in the world of making my own xplane aircraft (this is my very first post on the site actually) and would love to learn more about how you optimise your geometry to get the kind of performance described above. I'm comfortable with the requisite programs (Blender, plane maker, GIMP, Sketchup etc) but don't know anything about making stuff that looks that good deliver great frame rates. Looks like it's off to trawl the forums for advice!

 

Thanks again for posting your exceptional work and I'm really looking forward to flying the finished product. The Jag is an old favourite of mine too

 

TinCam

[Tonka]

Hi TinCam,

 

Thank you for your comments. Regarding the high detail and high framerate paradox, most people i think would be surprised at just how efficient X-Plane is at rendering polygons.

 

There are directives built in to optimise a fast path through the GPU, in the form of ATTR commands. Keeping all geometry single sided, or all geometry double sided is one of the key things to do to keep GPU state switching to a minimum. I also find that merging multiple objects into one for the export, and snapping multiple co-located vertices together to reduce overall vertex count helps with both frame rate, and z buffer thrashing.

 

Removing surfaces that cannot be seen, or do not need to be seen, is also important - consider the floor of a basic 4 sided house object with a roof, we are always looking at it from the outside, removing the floor surface may only be one polygon in one house, but consider the saving when you have 1000, or 100,000 house objects in view.

 

It is texture size, and the VRAM they use that can affect framerate more. One key thing we can do here is to ensure that ALL alpha is kept to the same texture, even if that means breaking up the model into multiple objects.

 

Lastly, when one considers the polygon use inside the cabin of a large airliner, e.g. the default 747, with people sat in toilets etc, the type of aircraft modelled can have some bearing on where one can afford to spend their polygon budget. The Jaguar has no cabin, so i used the budget on the landing gear instead. Also, keeping some modelling crude when it is not in direct view all the time is important. Although there is a lot of detail around my landing gear, a lot of it is done in a crude fashion when compared to the 3D cockpit, the number vertices in a cylindrical object, for example.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Keep your eyes peeled for a Jaguar update in the coming weeks. Work has been ongoing, and external livery work is progressing very nicely, while the cockpit is beginning to come together.

[guym-p]

Lastly, when one considers the polygon use inside the cabin of a large airliner, e.g. the default 747, with people sat in toilets etc, the type of aircraft modelled can have some bearing on where one can afford to spend their polygon budget

 

Another thing is how you choose to model instruments.  If you map Plane Maker instruments to a 3D cockpit it becomes a FPS hog.  Therefore if the aircraft you are designing has analogue instruments, model them in 3D with animated needles and flags.  Obviously when you have to use Plane Maker instruments, e.g. for EFIS, then you must.

 

Guy.

[scotchegg]

Keep your eyes peeled for a Jaguar update in the coming weeks. Work has been ongoing, and external livery work is progressing very nicely, while the cockpit is beginning to come together.

 

Will be waiting with baited breath...!

[TinCam]

Tonka and Guy,

Thanks so much for all your advice above, I have to admit I have always been a bit tentative to post on forums and as a result hadn't until now. Your willingness and enthusiasm is such a reassurance for a noob like me! I'm in the process of starting a beaufighter (the RAAF version as that's where im from) and will hopefully have something to show in the coming weeks ( fingers crossed). In the mean time I'll be waiting to see more from Tonka the polygon master

Model on!

Tin Cam

[Tonka]

Ah, the whispering death, can't wait to see your progress Sir!

 

Don't be put off by the long journey, research, testing, building and rebuilding all takes lots of time. I'm sure there will be times when you wish you hadn't started, but just keep everything backed up, and put in what ever time you can, when you can. 

 

 

Cheers!

[guym-p]

Don't put pressure on yourself to come up with something in weeks, then give up when you can't.  It takes a   L—O—N—G   time to become proficient in all the skills.  I was so appalled by my early work that I scrapped the Comet and started it again, from scratch … twice.  If you're one of those people who enjoy the journey as much as getting there, then it's all part of the fun.

 

I regret I sometimes go for a week without tuning in to read the forums, but when you have questions (and you will) please don't hesitate to ask.  There are always some in the community who seem to take great pleasure slamming newbies, who might say: "There have been dozens of topics on this already!" and then not give an answer, but there are others who will always help if they can.

 

Search, read, but above all experiment.  Don't be afraid to try a new technique.  Even if it leads up a blind alley, you will have learned a lot.

 

Good luck!

Guy.

[TinCam]

Thanks for all the advice gents, it's greatly appreciated. I'm currently learning how  little I know for specific purposes in blender.... But learning a lot at the same time I'll post some images when I have something even vaguely worth looking at. Congratulations to both of you for some outstanding work - both the Jag and the Comet

 

Cam

[scotchegg]

*cough*

[Tonka]

Hehe, that reminds me of medical assesments of the past. Cough please!

 

In other news: http://x-planejag.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/update.html

 

:-)

[Jim Kallinen]

Hehe, that reminds me of medical assesments of the past. Cough please!

 

In other news: http://x-planejag.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/update.html

 

:-)

Ah Yes, I remember that medical test to. Was not a very pleasant one at that.

 

Awesome paint jobs. Looking forward to flying it.

[scotchegg]

Great liveries; particularly like the white underside. The winter camo will make it into first release, right....?

 

Think I'm more excited about this project than any other plane in my simming life so far. Look forward to the cockpit shots!!

[Tonka]

Thanks Mr Egg, and i'm sure we'll see an Arctic Camo scheme soon!

 

Thanks for your comments, its good to know that i am not the only one who is excited about this project!

[scotchegg]

(Cough) Cockpit shots! (Cough)

[Tonka]

(cough) Just moved to a new city and started a 4 year degree course at university (cough) :-)

Seriously though, I'm a bit busy with real life at the moment, but work on the jag is just above stationary. I have a few bits of cockpit that I could show images from, but I'm never happy posting messy images. Good news is that I have full access to XX145, the ex ETPS Jaguar T2, so I can get some great info and more accurate dimension data with a short drive.

Scotch egg, in return for your continued interest, I'll send you something to play with in the near future. Email me at the address on my blog and I'll be in contact as soon as I can.

Cheers!

[scotchegg]

Having just moved to a new flat (same city but a move just the same) and also just started a Masters degree, I completely sympathise. Not that I condone any shunting of the Jag down your list of life priorities you understand. After all, the quicker it gets done, the quicker you can move onto the EE Lightning I know you must be privately thinking about...

 

Just kidding, the best of British with your studies and I'll keep my support a bit more in the wings for the time being!

[Tonka]

#workhasnotceased