[CLOSED] Saab 340 manuals for download

[Emalice]

Ummm I dont see your logic. When you buy a car, do you ask for the manual to go home with before buying the car? 

 

No, you don't, for at least two reasons :

First, a car is a real object, not a simulation. There is, by definition, a gap in reality between the real object and the simulation of that object. I wish I could assess for myself the gap that exists between the real Saab340 and this simulation. It is true that I can go watch many videos about the real saab340, it will not give me any indication as to the level of simulation of the LES saab340. 

 

Second : when you want to buy a car, you can go to your shop and actually try the car, drive it around etc. No matter how much care was put into the making of the car, dealers will still let you drive it (and provide for the tear and wear costs associated) because they know that's the best way to sell it. 

 

About the digital product we are discussing here, there is no demo available, and the videos that were provided are not informative as to the depth of the simulation. The manual is therefore the most effective source of information I could think of.

 

That is my logic explained to you, I hope it makes more sense now :-)

 

I will watch your videos, hopefully they will contain the information I seek. If I make the decision of buying that aircraft based on your videos, I hope LES will thank you for taking care of their advertising for them :-D

 

E.

 

[arb65912]

 

First, a car is a real object, not a simulation. There is, by definition, a gap in reality between the real object and the simulation of that object. I wish I could assess for myself the gap that exists between the real Saab340 and this simulation. It is true that I can go watch many videos about the real saab340, it will not give me any indication as to the level of simulation of the LES saab340. 

 

Second : when you want to buy a car, you can go to your shop and actually try the car, drive it around etc. No matter how much care was put into the making of the car, dealers will still let you drive it (and provide for the tear and wear costs associated) because they know that's the best way to sell it. 

 

About the digital product we are discussing here, there is no demo available, and the videos that were provided are not informative as to the depth of the simulation. The manual is therefore the most effective source of information I could think of.

 

If English was not my second language, this is exactly what I would say.

 

Great response, E. 

[Emalice]

Thank you. Actually, English is my second language :-D

E.

[Emalice]

Technically you could have read it and then "f*ck'ed" off if you chose not to buy I guess, right? But that's a discussion for another day and not really why we're here.

Yes, you are right, I could very well have. I never suggested otherwise. 

 

Have you ever been to a wine tasting ? Years of care went into the grapes growing and wine making process. Many people will just taste it and then f*ck off. Offering a taste of your product is in no way harming its reputation or quality, it is merely a part of what people call promotion.

 

It is a fact that when time, effort and money went into making a product, you want to try and sell it as best as you can. Now it is my personnal opinion that someone (i.e. me) who is ready to read a 200+ pages manual has a genuine interest in the product. If indeed the aircraft is as good as you say, there is a strong chance I would go ahead and proceed to buying it. It is not 100%, so you are indeed taking a risk of giving out the manual for nothing, but have you weighed that risk against the potential benefit of selling more aircrafts ? 

Have you considered selling the manual for a nominal fee ? 

 

You probably have, but I maintain my position : my demand was polite and argumented, I expect a similar answer. Your single word rebuttal was not.

 

At the moment, we consider these value added. Quite a bit of care and execution went into writing them. This product is extremely thorough.

I do not doubt that. But here again I only have your word for it. I am not saying you are lying, but as you are an interested party, your enthusiasm could cloud your judgment.

 

The work in progress forum shows many beautiful pictures and many descriptions of some capabilities of the aircraft, which sparked my interest for it.

In my very personal opinion, the preview video is nothing more than an animated photo gallery. So I have no way of knowing for sure if it is indeed as thorough as you say. That's all.

E.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Emalice

[sqrt(-1)]

As a recurring customer of X-Aviation (crj200, Mu-2, corvalis, DC-3) but also and mostly as a human being, i expected more consideration.

 

So, as a recurring customer with other X-Aviation published aircraft, are you really expecting the Saab to be a that big of a disappointment (therefore a big risk) compared to the others you have bought?

 

Do you think other clients that bought the Saab "on good faith" to be so frivolous to take a chance that it would be as good as previewed?  Given the reviews and comments all over these forums, I would say people are quite satisfied.  As I am.

 

It's been a long time since I have read about anyone so hesitant to make the purchase.  Makes one wonder.

[Emalice]

 

It's been a long time since I have read about anyone so hesitant to make the purchase.  Makes one wonder.

 

Makes one wonder... what, exactly ? Please, develop.

I edited my previous post and removed the part about being a customer, not for the reason you mentionned, but because it was irrelevant and quite vain.

 

However, as a customer, it is my prerogative, and mine alone, to decide how, what and when I want to buy something. Please notice that I am not complaining about LES's decision to not provide the manual as free download. I am argumenting against it, because I believe it doesn't make any sense, I am sure LES, or Cameron for that matter can argument back as to why it does make sense to them. This whole thing would have been resolved long ago with an argumented response, instead of a single slap on the wrist ("nope"). It's been a long time since I have been treated this way on a forum.

 

I will not engage in a debate over the difference between a software publisher and a developper. All X-Aviation products that I have, even though they are made by different developpers, are of very good quality. The only other LES aircraft I have is the DC-3. I got it after reading some enthusiastic reviews about it, turns out I do not like it very much. In hindsight I would not have bought it. Since then, I like to make my own opinion about something before buying it.

 

I thank AtomicFrawg for his videos, this is the kind of helpful informative input that will make for the lack of available manual. Let's leave it at that.

 

E.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Emalice

[arb65912]

 

 

Given the reviews and comments all over these forums, I would say people are quite satisfied.  As I am.

 

How many people responded in this forum? I would be very satisfied if it worked for me but if you read my posts and replies you can tell I can not be satisfied.

 

I do not blame Cameron for replying that he does not have any suggestions for me because I am the only one that reported it.

 

I am about to give the plane up since last developments, I love the design but I can not use it ( frame rate simply slows to crawl).

 

I will monitor these forums to see how the improvements are implemented and maybe one day I will be happy with SAAB, not now though.

Edited October 1, 2013 by arb65912

[Cameron]

I do not doubt that. But here again I only have your word for it. I am not saying you are lying, but as you are an interested party, your enthusiasm could cloud your judgment.

 

I understand this. It doesn't sway me, but there are plenty of posts here from real users, as well as reviews on the actual product page for you to gauge the product. 

 

The gap between reality and this product is essentially non-existent from a simulated system standpoint. It took 3.5 years to develop this for good reason. It's up to you now to decide whether you want to dive in or not, as I can only say so much.

 

This topic has gone round and round for two whole pages, and so at this juncture I am going to put a close to it...not because I am dissatisfied with your responses, but because you asked a question, and you received an answer. That's really the end of it.

 

There are certainly much bigger fish to fry. I can say without doubt you are missing out on a very beautiful simulation that represents the real aircraft and its systems in a very big way...more-so than any product for X-Plane ever released, and that's a bold statement on my part. 

 

Have a good one, Tristan, and hopefully we see you in the friendly skies someday soon!