Real CL650 Pilot here with bugs/ request

[mtmurat]

The FMS and VNAV are superb. One thing I noticed (and I do this in the real plane), if one flies an ILS or RNAV with intent to circle, I like to build the visual approach to the intended runway of landing in a secondary flight plan. I switch to HDG/ ALT to begin the circle, then activate the SEC flight plan (visual), go Direct to the RX fix, then select Nav/VNAV, dial the Alt selector to zero, (adjust with VVS is above vertical profile) then the jet flies a picture perfect visual approach (one can assign speeds to the visual fixes also to let ARS handle that).

In Version 1.8, it will do this, BUT when activating it in this manner, VNAV does not work. The workaround is to build the Visual in the Active flight plan but don’t activate it until committed to circle- in this scenario it’s all there, VNAV and all. The benefit of doing it the first way is that the original approach then becomes Secondary and can be activated promptly in the event of needing the published Miss.

On the request front, can we start with the Altimeter in Baro?

I'm happy to answer real world CL650 questions or to beta test new versions. I have three copies on three machines- 2 Windows PCs and a M4 MacBook Pro.

I fly S/N 5911- technically a 60( but with the PL21 Advanced, HUD and triple IRS/FMS.

 

 

 

[skiselkov]

9 minutes ago, mtmurat said:

The FMS and VNAV are superb. One thing I noticed (and I do this in the real plane), if one flies an ILS or RNAV with intent to circle, I like to build the visual approach to the intended runway of landing in a secondary flight plan. I switch to HDG/ ALT to begin the circle, then activate the SEC flight plan (visual), go Direct to the RX fix, then select Nav/VNAV, dial the Alt selector to zero, (adjust with VVS is above vertical profile) then the jet flies a picture perfect visual approach (one can assign speeds to the visual fixes also to let ARS handle that).

Welcome. Let's work on refining the details here. The way you describe it, I don't see why it shouldn't work in the sim already, so there's probably some step you're doing that's missing. Let's build up a specific test case so I can analyze what's going on in detail:

• which airport
• what is the original STAR+approach+runway selection in the ACT FPLN
• what exactly do you have entered in SEC FPLN?
• exactly where do you switch to HDG/ALT and what are the heading & altitude you fly
• then the exact sequence of button presses or mode changes you do - when do you activate SEC FPLN, what changes do you perform to the activated flight plan?
• crucially - what exact sequence of button presses leads to VNAV not activating as you expect it to - what modes do you expect to see? What do you see instead?

Basically, I need an almost robotic sequence of steps, so I can repeat them on my machine and see the problematic behavior you're describing.

13 minutes ago, mtmurat said:

On the request front, can we start with the Altimeter in Baro?

Yeah, this has been on my pile of little things to fix for a while. I know the real avionics should default to inches of mercury rather than hPa, but I figured it's not a big deal for folks using persistent airframes (once changed with an airframe, it sticks).

[mtmurat]

Thanks for quick reply. I’ve done it in the real airplane at KAFW (34R) and KGPI (20).

KGPI, setup ILS 02, SKOTT transition. Keep it in Nav/Vnav until a few miles from HOTRU.

Sec flight plan: Setup Visual to runway 02, modify it to give a 3 mile final. Put PLAN screen on MFD 2 and leave FMS 2 displaying Sec flight plan. (You should see the Activate button on lower right corner. Do not activate it yet. Fixes are RX02 (twice) and RW02.

Now you are looking at ILS02 on MFD/ FMS 1, and the Visual to 20 on MFD/FMS 2.

Approaching HOTRU, select APPR to arm the approach and set 4500’. Airplane switches to green needles and starts down on the ILS. You should be gear down, flaps 30, 150knots. Once decent is established, switch to HDG/ VS and switch NAV source to magenta/ long range nav. Airplane will capture 4500’ (pattern altitude on a clear day). Turn HDG left about 20 degrees and head toward downwind. 

On FMS 2, Activate the Visual approach/ Sec flight plan. (For good SA, I have previously put a 3nm fix off of RW20- dashed blue circle). When almost abeam and about 2.5nm from RX20, select NAV, VNAV, Alt selector to Zero. Airplane turns to the fix and SHOULD display magenta VNAV reference with snowflake (in the sim, instead of making a Sec flight plan, if I replace the ILS with the visual, I get the reference/ snowflake, when swapping flight plans, I do not). If you are high, VS down to intercept the VPATH. She flies a picture perfect visual.

So. Replacing the ILS when on the downwind works, but swapping flight plans provides no vertical reference, only lateral.

Swapping the flight plans is preferred as it’s fewer button presses in the pattern plus the first flight plans (ILS 02) now becomes Sec so if you need that for the miss, you can simply activate it.

I go to KGPI all the time and circle to 20 about half the time, this is really helpful. Gotta make it 3nm to keep you away from the rocks. Works left or right downwind. 

 

Edited Sunday at 01:45 AM by mtmurat

[mtmurat]

On 9/12/2025 at 8:29 PM, skiselkov said:

Welcome. Let's work on refining the details here. The way you describe it, I don't see why it shouldn't work in the sim already, so there's probably some step you're doing that's missing. Let's build up a specific test case so I can analyze what's going on in detail:

• which airport
• what is the original STAR+approach+runway selection in the ACT FPLN
• what exactly do you have entered in SEC FPLN?
• exactly where do you switch to HDG/ALT and what are the heading & altitude you fly
• then the exact sequence of button presses or mode changes you do - when do you activate SEC FPLN, what changes do you perform to the activated flight plan?
• crucially - what exact sequence of button presses leads to VNAV not activating as you expect it to - what modes do you expect to see? What do you see instead?

Basically, I need an almost robotic sequence of steps, so I can repeat them on my machine and see the problematic behavior you're describing.

Yeah, this has been on my pile of little things to fix for a while. I know the real avionics should default to inches of mercury rather than hPa, but I figured it's not a big deal for folks using persistent airframes (once changed with an airframe, it sticks).

Re: Altimeter- the sim tends to get a bit stupid after a few visits in persistent mode- I prefer to sets cold dark each time to avoid that. On a positive note, I’m real good at tweaking all my prefs though- lol. 
 

*also- lots of times in persistent mode, the temperature indicators in the PFD are yellow dashed out…

[skiselkov]

19 hours ago, mtmurat said:

Re: Altimeter- the sim tends to get a bit stupid after a few visits in persistent mode 

Can you elaborate? In what way is it "stupid?" It should be exactly where you left it. You can also always just save a cold & dark state and reload it every time you want a clean jet set up the way you want it.

19 hours ago, mtmurat said:

*also- lots of times in persistent mode, the temperature indicators in the PFD are yellow dashed out…

That's cause you turned on the probe heats while on the ground with no airflow over the (non-aspirated) TAT probe housing. The TAT probe goes "--" once the temperature it reads hits about 70°C. This is behavior reproduced from the real jet. This is also why Bombardier tell you not to rely on the temperature indications on the PFD for PERF INIT and use ATIS or METAR data instead.

[mtmurat]

Re: Yellow dashed out TAT indications.

I am aware of all that as I fly this plane in real life.

XP CL650 temps only yellow dashed out for me when I load a saved scenario. It could be one that starts on the ground or in flight. Right from the get go, they are dashed out and cannot be restored- even if the probe heats are in the off position on the ground. I’ve tried introducing failures and clearing them- all to no avail.

This is why I prefer starting from a standalone cold dark airplane- never seem to have issues with that. 

[skiselkov]

On 9/14/2025 at 3:41 AM, mtmurat said:

KGPI, setup ILS 02, SKOTT transition. Keep it in Nav/Vnav until a few miles from HOTRU.

Sec flight plan: Setup Visual to runway 02, modify it to give a 3 mile final. Put PLAN screen on MFD 2 and leave FMS 2 displaying Sec flight plan. (You should see the Activate button on lower right corner. Do not activate it yet. Fixes are RX02 (twice) and RW02.

Now you are looking at ILS02 on MFD/ FMS 1, and the Visual to 20 on MFD/FMS 2.

Approaching HOTRU, select APPR to arm the approach and set 4500’. Airplane switches to green needles and starts down on the ILS. You should be gear down, flaps 30, 150knots. Once decent is established, switch to HDG/ VS and switch NAV source to magenta/ long range nav. Airplane will capture 4500’ (pattern altitude on a clear day). Turn HDG left about 20 degrees and head toward downwind. 

On FMS 2, Activate the Visual approach/ Sec flight plan. (For good SA, I have previously put a 3nm fix off of RW20- dashed blue circle). When almost abeam and about 2.5nm from RX20, select NAV, VNAV, Alt selector to Zero. Airplane turns to the fix and SHOULD display magenta VNAV reference with snowflake (in the sim, instead of making a Sec flight plan, if I replace the ILS with the visual, I get the reference/ snowflake, when swapping flight plans, I do not). If you are high, VS down to intercept the VPATH. She flies a picture perfect visual.

Thank you for the test case here. I've been able to identify the source of the problem. (It has relatively little to do with SEC FPLN, but that's besides the point.) Before I commit to a fix, I need to map out some of the real avionics behaviors some more, which you might be able to help me with:

Quote

If you are high, VS down to intercept the VPATH. She flies a picture perfect visual.

When exactly does the VPATH intercept happen? Can it happen while you are flying the base leg, or do you have to be pretty well aligned with the final leg before it can capture? Reason I'm asking is that the FMS manual on page 18-21 seems to imply that VPATH will NOT be captured if track angle error exceeds 30°, which would obviously be the case on the base leg (see screenshot). So if you tell me that you can capture VPATH even on base, then we're dealing with yet another case of the manual lying (or missing important details) about what the avionics actually does.

[skiselkov]

1 hour ago, mtmurat said:

XP CL650 temps only yellow dashed out for me when I load a saved scenario. It could be one that starts on the ground or in flight. Right from the get go, they are dashed out and cannot be restored- even if the probe heats are in the off position on the ground. I’ve tried introducing failures and clearing them- all to no avail.

I can assure the only reason this shows is because the probes are still hot. Possibly because from the last flight you're restoring, they were already overheated and the simulation doesn't cool them off between reloads of the saved state. So if they were very hot before, you reload the flight, they'll still be hot (all of this gets saved into the state file). If you switch off the probe heats and wait about 5-10 minutes, they will come back, rest assured. It just takes them some time to cool off. Testing, the TAT probe hit about 114°C with no wind to cool it off (~386.5 Kelvin in the dataref display there). From there, switching the probes off, it took around 7 minutes to cool off below 60°C, when the indications on the PFD returned.

[mtmurat]

I hear what you are saying- I’m quite familiar with these. I have one persistent scenario saved- in holding at SKOTT intersection near KGPI, 13,000’ (200knots, 0*c). If I launch this state regularly it will open with everything working. If I open it after a few weeks, then it’s likely to be unstable. This instability manifests itself as the aforementioned Temp probe yellow dashes (and I’ve tried QRH 2 guidance, turning switches off for a time, ect), sometimes all 4 screens are black (but work when they are popped out), or more recently I noticed the oscillating pitch that was previously mentioned. 

I am certainly not upset, just trying to share user observations for your information. This is why my go-to is always start in the non persistent state. This is much more realistic from a pilots point of view, reinforces checklist discipline and to my knowledge I have never experienced glitches when starting this way. 

If you like, I’m happy to share more info the next time I see something weird.?