Recommendations for Tutorial(s) on JS32 Radio Navigation

[JimboG]

Hi there,

 

Please could I ask if anyone has any recommendations for "good" tutorials on Radio Navigation?

 

The reason I ask is because I am trying to learn how to fly JRollon's excellent J32 a bit better than: "Start, Up, Turn a bit, Down, Stop."

 

I've flown simulation for some time now so I'm not a complete noob! - but by the same token I have been spoiled by FMCs that have been only to willing to suck in a route I've generated automatically and then fly me from point to point.

 

In the Jetstream I've figured out a "DirectTo" to the destination airport - but that sucks to be honest.

 

I can see a plethora of material out there, and I was amazed by Keith Smith of PilotEdge's KBUR to KLAS J32 flight and his use of pre-planned and on-the-fly navigation using the radios. 

 

But I've got no real idea of how he did it!

 

I think I could piece it together by studying the route and the video he made here several times:

 

 

But I'd prefer to actually learn how to do this properly. To that end, does anyone have any "favorite" tutorials they could recommend?

 

(I don't mind reading or watching YouTube, and I have both vroute.premium nDAC from Navigraph.)

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Kind regards,

 

James

 

[JimboG]

I'm starting here:

 

http://wiki.flightgear.org/Radio_navigation

 

Cheers

 

James

[JimboG]

Hi there,
 
So I was trying to follow the wiki above and I'm not quite getting it - I managed to get myself to the GUR VOR-DME from Jersey EGJJ and at the point of flying over GUR I checked the Radial for PIKEY (which is where I wanted to go next.) It said 265 - so I put my HDG on 265 and then set my CRS 180 in reverse, let the plane turn to 265 and then hit NAV (I know this is wrong, I am clearly missing the right steps here!) which went to NAV-ARM but then nothing.
 
Here's what my local map looks like:

 

 

So would somebody mind giving me some tips on what I need to do to get to PIKEY? Here's my confusion:

 

1.) The wiki is telling me that the VOR will have a radio frequency, but there isn't one in the X-Plane Local Map for PIKEY - so who's wrong?

2.) I keep seeing the reference to "dial in the radial" - does that mean I should put the CRS on that number or 180 degree opposite?

3.) How can the plane know the distance to the next VOR if there is no radio frequency? The plane can't just know???

 

See? Total confusion. (Looks down in shame.)

 

Cheers

 

James

[cessna729]

Please could I ask if anyone has any recommendations for "good" tutorials on Radio Navigation?

Hi, James, there are many good RW IFR/Radio Navigation tutorials on the web.

But for one aimed at X-Plane try here, scroll half way down and look for X-IFR 01 to X-IFR 10.

cessna729.

[JimboG]

Hi cessna729,

 

This is great! Thanks for this! I've just spotted why I can't get to PIKEY using the radios by the way - It's not a VOR - it's a FIX. Ahem.

 

Now time to put the kettle on, make a brew and start going through the articles you've listed.

 

Thanks very much indeed!

 

Kind regards,

 

James

[cessna729]

I managed to get myself to the GUR VOR-DME from Jersey EGJJ and at the point of flying over GUR I checked the Radial for PIKEY (which is where I wanted to go next.) It said 265

That's not the radial!! You appear to be getting a bit mixed up between Radial, Hdg and Track.

And you can get to that PIKEY without relying on the GPS!!

Just give me a few minutes and I'll show you.

cessna729

Edited January 26, 2013 by cessna729

[cessna729]

Ok, James, the PIKEY Fix is part of the GULDA and CAEN Standard Instrument Departures or SID's for EGJB.

As you say you were flying from Jersey EGJJ to GUERNSEY VOR-DME (GUR), did you want to shoot an approach into EGJB (GUERNSEY)?
If that is the case, and you wanted to practice VOR and DME approaches, I suggest the EGJB VOR/DME RWY 27 approach. The RW charts for EGJB can be found here.

But I also suggest you practice simple basic stuff like traking towards and away from VOR's to start with. Practice intercepting a RADIAL, using the TO and FROM indicator. And practice how to fly STANDARD RATE TURNS, climbs and descents, one step at a time before attempting to put them all together in an approach.

 

Back to your original problem, PIKEY is on the 083.5 deg RADIAL at 15.0 nm DME from the GUR VOR-DME beacon, not the 265R

cessna729.

Edited January 26, 2013 by cessna729

[JimboG]

Hi cessna729,

 

Ok, James, the PIKEY Fix is part of the GULDA and CAEN Standard Instrument Departures or SID's for EGJB.

 

I am reasonably familiar with SIDs and STARS from planning various routes in the past, but obviously only at a superficial level! This is a good way of identifying routes that use particular fixes during route planning I guess, which you would be doing in advance of leaving the airport, rather than on-the-fly like I was trying to do!

 

As you say you were flying from Jersey EGJJ to GUERNSEY VOR-DME (GUR), did you want to shoot an approach into EGJB (GUERNSEY)?
If that is the case, and you wanted to practice VOR and DME approaches, I suggest the EGJB VOR/DME RWY 27 approach. The RW charts for EGJB can be found here.

 

But I also suggest you practice simple basic stuff like traking towards and away from VOR's to start with. Practice intercepting a RADIAL, using the TO and FROM indicator. And practice how to fly STANDARD RATE TURNS, climbs and descents.

 

The Channel Islands are my home area so "hopping" between the islands is a favorite pastime of mine - helps me put things in context when learning new stuff, especially the amount times I have flown off/on and around my home island of Jersey. I'm currently reading the tutorials you mentioned earlier - and yes I'm trying to get to grips with the X-IFR03 lesson right now, twiddling my OBS whilst at EGJJ on NAV1 112.20 at 264!! (I'd never noticed the TO and FROM indicator ever before.....) (I've had a vrInsight MCP Pro Combo for nearly two years and have never used the Radio panel! So I'm going to try and start with the basics as you say of tracking TO and FROM VORs and then I'll start doing some intercepts.

 

Back to your original problem, PIKEY is on the 083.5 deg RADIAL at 15.0 nm DME from the GUR VOR-DME beacon, not the 265R

 

I see that now, that's a neat little trick, I'll try to bear that in mind when flight planning. I can see now that trying to do what I was attempting was like trying to guess someones phone number by looking at their post code... doh!

 

Thanks again, really useful information.

 

Kind regards,

 

James

Edited January 26, 2013 by JimboG

[JimboG]

Hi cessna729,

 

Doing a few circuits of Gatwick like this, to get used to the controls, tuning, switching and knowing what to look for on the instruments:

 

Takeoff from Gatwick EGKK RWY08R

 

NAV1

1.) Biggin Hill VOR-DME 115.10

2.) Ockham VOR-DME 115.30

 

NAV2

3.) Midhurst VOR-DME 114.00

4.) Mayfield VOR-DME 117.90

 

So I am going round and round in a rectangle with about 4 minutes or so between VOR's - seems to be going quite well!

 

(The pink line on the Local Map that shows my flight path is getting tighter on each circuit as I get a bit more in tune with it!) 

 

Thanks again for the pointers!

 

Kind regards,

 

James

[woweezowee]

Always an "oldie but goldie": http://stoenworks.com/Aviation%20home%20page.html

Scroll down to the "tutorials" section to find info on navigation as well as stuff like old-school approaches etc

[JimboG]

Thanks woweezowee and cessna729 for your help, I will definitely work through the material.

 

After a couple of circuits around Gatwick I'm starting to get the hang of it, even managed to set a manual HDG and then tune the Gatwick NDB to shoot for 26L back at EGKK afterwards!

 

 

Time for a rest and a cup of tea methinks!

 

Cheers

 

James

[Keith Smith]

James,

 

It sounds like you're on the right track. You can use the VOR receiver to get yourself direct to a VOR from your present position by just spinning the OBS until you get the needle centered with a TO reading on the to/from flag. Or, you can use it to join specific tracks to/from a VOR. It's the latter technique that's going to allow you to intercept a radial/airway, and is the basis of non-RNAV SIDs and STARs. Once you master that, you'll be well on your way to enjoying enroute IFR navigation.

 

The VNY9 departure from the VNY VOR is cruel and heartless, don't start with that one as a study tool. Try the I-3 video (SNA to BUR) via vectors to SLI V23 POPPR SMO125R SMO SMO311R SILEX. You can see the I-3 flight in the PE training program as well as the cockpit video here: http://training.pilotedge.net/object/i3Rating.html

 

You don't have to fly this online, of course, you can practice it offline and just shoot the visual into Burbank.

 

I would recommend studying that route close using the low enroute chart and LAX area chart on Skyvector. Here's the route, all ready for your perusal: 

http://skyvector.com/?ll=33.96781440568889,-118.29794171372899&chart=469&zoom=2&plan=A.K2.KSNA:V.K2.SLI:F.K2.POPPR:V.K2.SMO:F.K2.SILEX:A.K2.KBUR

 

Once you've studied the route and have it in front of you watch the video, pausing/rewinding as needed to process exactly what's being done and why.

 

You'll quickly notice a pattern of "where am I now? where am I going next? and setting up the radios accordingly. The hardest part of flying IFR is staying 'ahead of the airplane'. That means being ready for what's coming next.

 

Cessna, you're doing a great job helping him out!

[cessna729]

Cessna, you're doing a great job helping him out!

Old habits die hard!

Your video's got him "pointed in the right direction!", pun intended! :lol:

cessna729.