Taxi steering -- I see ailerons working, not rudder

[maestrogn]

Thanks to Cameron, et al, I have XP10 running well with the Challenger 300.

One concern that I couldn't find in my Internet searches ... When I am steering on the ground (i.e with weight on the landing gear), the ailerons are working so, during a landing, when I make little corrections the plane tries to bank.

I don't have rudder pedals (nor, frankly, do I want another piece of equipment at this point). So, is there a set up that will let me truly nose-wheel steer under a certain speed? BTW, I know that the nose-wheel steering toggle doesn't do what I want the airplane to do.

Thanks for the help.

mGN

[Cameron]

Great question. There are some joysticks which incorporate rudder/steering into one joystick (you twist the joystick), but other than this, I don't know what else to offer. Hopefully someone else has better solutions!

[chris k]

You will need either:

1. a Joystick with Rudder/Twist control (z axis) which loosely links the rudder to the steering.

2. a Joystick with some type of wheel/dial, which you can then link to the "Nose Wheel Steering' Axis - for direct control of where the wheels are pointing.

I use an X52 pro, which has both a twist axis on the stick portion for rudder, and also a pair of nice wheels/potentiometers = I use the 'E" (large flat horizontal wheel on the top left) as my nose-wheel-steer; and works fantastic. X52 Pro is about $80-$100. (I use the other vertical wheel for Flaps, and another vertical scroller up/down for elevator Trim). Works really really wekk - so that I can keep my hands on the stick/throttle and fully control the acft.

Other solution: Pedals.

- CK.

Edited August 24, 2012 by chris k

[maestrogn]

Here's a thought -- is there any way to reassign my mouse wheel for this? I fly with the CH Yoke, Saitek Throttle Quad and the Saitek Multipanel. Having something else in front of me that looks like only Darth Vader's mother could love doesn't exactly appeal to me. Two other possibilities just just occured to me: assigning the pitch wheel on the CH Yoke for this, or, using the flap lever on the Quad ... it feels like it has the same detent that the throttle levers have -- going below that detent spot at the bottom sends out a button signal that might be reassignable to the nose wheel steering. That's the way the reverse on the throttles for the Quad works - I'll poke around this stuff on Sunday (tomorrow is a sailing day -- for real).

I'm on such a steep learning curve here that I reading mounds of material and easily forget where I read something. Somewhere, I think I read of a way to use the numberical keypad 4 and 6 keys to steer the nose. Sound familiar?

In the meantime, if you have any thoughts, they will be greatfully received.

mGN

P.s. Doesn't anybody make a basic vanilla joystick anymore? I don't need the thing to make coffee and give massages!

[chris k]

A basic Vanilla Joystick these days has a twist-grip.

- CK.

[maestrogn]

OK, I had some time early this morning to experiment with the tiller steering. Here is the report:

1. I had one more axis left on the CH Yoke and I assigned that to tiller steering. It works.
   
2. At 15 kph while taxiing, the sim switches you to yoke steering (a little low, it might be more realistic to have the switch over at 20? -- any real 300 pilots out there who know?)
   
3. Once the sim moves you to yoke steering, it is not with the rudder, but with the ailerons (which is why, when approaching Vr, the plane can actually try to roll (bank) while still on the ground. THAT is an unrealistic oversight in the code.
   
   • I hunted through all the menus and could not find a way to have the plane rudder steer instead of with ailerons. Does anybody know how this can be changed?
     

So, we can make things more realistic with a yoke while on the ground. However the 15 kph switchover is unrealistic. Max taxi speeds vary from plane to plane, company to company, but most routinely allow 20 k on a straight line and 10 k on turns while on the ground. Is there anyway to alter that number in X-Plane 10?

mGN

[Kaphias]

Try playing with the number in Planemaker under the menu Standard > Landing Gear > Gear Data > Transition Speed. I don't own the 300 so I don't know if there's a plugin controlling that behavior, but that's the number that always used to change it.

[maestrogn]

Thank you all for the help on this question:

Kaphias – thank you so much for that hint about plane maker. I looked at that place and, lo and behold, the transition speed is set at 30 kn. So something in the interlock between X-Plane and the Challenger 300 is overriding that down to the 15 kn level.

If any of you out there know another place in the programming where that number might be operable, I'd love to know it.

So far, my ground steering set up experiment is as follows (please keep in mind that this is a work in progress and I am refining it as new situations crop up – but even in this configuration things are much more realistic)

• Tiller steering = spare axis on the CH yoke
  
• Rudder steering is assigned to the numbers (on the keyboard) 1 (left), 2 (center), and 3 (right). That way, I can keep my right hand on the throttle and use my left hand on the keyboard to steer with the rudder during the takeoff roll.
  

I use the tiller steering to go onto the runway and put the plane on the centerline and then switch to the keyboard to steer with the rudder as I spool up the thrust.

By the way, I sent a message to Ian over at X-Plane.org (Ask the Challenger 300 pilot…). Here is his extremely helpful answer to my questions about handling the 300 on the ground.

"1. The real airplane has +/- 7 degrees of nose gear steering travel with the rudder pedals. Anything beyond that requires the tiller. During takeoff, the left hand is on the yoke and the right is on the power levers - no hand is on the tiller so there is no "transition" (this is different from many airplanes I have flown in the past). There is plenty of nose wheel steering authority through the pedals to keep the airplane straight even if there is an engine failure."

"2. The rudder is big and quite effective. It starts to help early and is very effective by 80kts. A better question might be "When is the rudder effective enough to control the airplane in the event of an engine failure" (without nose gear steering). That is VMCG or Velocity Minimum Control Ground and it's 111kts in the Challenger 300. Because the Challenger 300 can be a bit of a hand full if you loose an engine at VMCG, they have raised V1 (decision speed) to a minimum of 116kts (VMCG +5) to give us a bit more control authority for the takeoff or abort."

Finally, I felt so stupid after I realized that, with the better modeling in X-Plane, of course if I tried to steer with the CH-yoke it would work the ailerons! After that realization, this effort to gain tiller and rudder steering gives me much more control and realism.

mGN