Henksu Posted January 9, 2022 Report Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) Hi After completing a few flight with otherwise magnificent CL60, there is an issue with FD guidance on ILS approaches (atleast) when flying manually. When pretty much centered within the ILS the FD follows pilots inputs and plane attitude to some level, it's worse laterally than vertically. I usually have flown with full FBO and the problem has persisted on every flight. I shot 2 videos one with V-bar FD and other with X-bar. V-Bar X-Bar EDIT: VGP The issue also persists on VGP mode, maybe slightly less but still clearly there. Edited January 9, 2022 by Henksu added VGP
Graeme_77 Posted January 9, 2022 Report Posted January 9, 2022 You've probably been conditioned to other sim products behaving in a simplified manner. The Flight Directors are not providing a simple "put the nose here and wings here" indication, but rather they help lead the pilot to the correct attitude. By that I mean that even if the FDs ultimately want 5 degrees nose up, the bar will not show on the 5 degree line, but rather the displacement of the bars from the index indicates the rate of change the pilot is expected to need. Big distance to the FDs? "Hey! Pay attention!" Little distance to the FDs? "You're doing fine, just a little nudge." Ultimately, it's just another tool for the pilot to use. 1
Henksu Posted January 9, 2022 Author Report Posted January 9, 2022 Thank you for the reply, I wouldn't look down on someone reporting things and keep them as simple sim pilots. I have flown sims for 20 years and professionally in real life over 10. None on the aircraft that I've flown IRL doesn't behave like that. None. FD shouldn't be part of pilots movements but the other way around to be were APFD-system wants it to. I haven't flown with ProLine21A plane but I highly doubt that it should work like that. 2
Graeme_77 Posted January 9, 2022 Report Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) Can you expand on what you mean by "be part of the pilots movements"? Edited January 9, 2022 by Graeme_77
Henksu Posted January 9, 2022 Author Report Posted January 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Graeme_77 said: Can you expand on what you mean by "be part of the pilots movements"? Just what can be seen on the videos, FD is ”locked” to my control inputs following exactly the plane attitude to some extent
Graeme_77 Posted January 9, 2022 Report Posted January 9, 2022 The FD is damped, yes. But it's not locked to the aircraft. The flight director logic drives the autopilot too, and the AP follows the course as you would expect.
Henksu Posted January 9, 2022 Author Report Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Graeme_77 said: The FD is damped, yes. But it's not locked to the aircraft. The flight director logic drives the autopilot too, and the AP follows the course as you would expect. Yep that is as it should work. Now the damping seems to be a bit too powerful. Are you rated on the CL650 or could someone on the team confirm that it really does work like that in the plane? Edited January 9, 2022 by Henksu
Graeme_77 Posted January 9, 2022 Report Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) I'm not rated on the 650, but I am A320 rated and current. There were also a group of CL650 rated (and flight sim experienced) pilots who tested the model extensively, as well as CRJ200 pilots on the testing team, and again they are flight sim experienced, not just somebody that spent a few minutes with the model. It doesn't seem too different from the Airbus and there was a fair bit of work carried out on the FD tuning during development. Here's a blind landing with the Flight Directors only after inducing a significant lateral and vertical disturbance at 1000ft. https://streamable.com/qq4nq7 I'll load the aircraft to LDDU to check, are you using stock scenery and Navigraph data? A video of the real thing too, showing FD behaviour Edited January 9, 2022 by Graeme_77 1
Henksu Posted January 9, 2022 Author Report Posted January 9, 2022 Hi Thank you, payware LDDU with Navigraph data.
CaptCrash Posted January 10, 2022 Report Posted January 10, 2022 We will be validating the FD behavior in a CL650 level D simulator in the coming weeks. Thanks for the feedback!
Henksu Posted January 10, 2022 Author Report Posted January 10, 2022 8 hours ago, CaptCrash said: We will be validating the FD behavior in a CL650 level D simulator in the coming weeks. Thanks for the feedback! Thank you! Didn't want to start off with the wrong foot here Congratulations on a magnificent product, really groundbreaking.
CaptCrash Posted January 10, 2022 Report Posted January 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Henksu said: Thank you! Didn't want to start off with the wrong foot here Congratulations on a magnificent product, really groundbreaking. Not a problem, we want to make sure it is correct. The behavior stems from the different kinds of guidance the FD offers, when in a normal (non angular guidance FD mode) but we will have our subject matter expert validate the behaviors in the coming weeks.
Graeme_77 Posted January 22, 2022 Report Posted January 22, 2022 The flight director behaviour was investigated by the subject matter experts and following some additional info the developers have updated the behaviour of the V-bar flight director. The X-ptr director was found to be satisfactory. It will not be in v1.1r1, but the change has been committed ready for the next release.
Graeme_77 Posted January 24, 2022 Report Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Report 2437 Fixed in v1.2r3, January 24, 2022 Edited January 24, 2022 by Graeme_77
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