CDU FMC Error

[Igbon]

Hi Jan, thanks for the reply, I appreciate your time.

I don't think it is your job to teach me how to fly the plane but I  do think that if I follow the included tutorials and follow books which were recommended as part of the package, books I paid for, I ought to be able to fly those tutorials.

The point of tutorials is for those who can't fly, me for example. My complaints  have been that I was trying to learn the recommended way and there were errors and inconsistencies in the lessons which made it difficult.

I am sorry if my frustrations seem so negative toward your product, it is mostly just my frustration speaking. I really love the product  and the way it looks and feels, which is why I have spent so much time trying.

I did try some MSFS products and did have more success, where things seem to happen as described. However, it doesn't look as good or feel as good.

And it runs out of memory being only 32 bit.

I did show me though that I can do some things.

But, I am really glad to hear your perspective in that the sim is accurate and that every one else fly's without problems.

It encourages me to keep trying.

Maybe the VNAV descent problems are what is tripping me up. I don't know enough. Yet.

I do appreciate the support here too, so again sorry for sounding so negative.

I shall try the tutorial videos, that may help.

My real flying experience stopped shortly after my  first solo in a Piper Tomahawk, so my flying experience is limited. But I love flying.

 

What is  the issue with VNAV descents. Is that maybe why I can't do a complete flight, including landing, using the automatic systems soon after takeoff. It is descent and hooking up with the ILS for CAT111 landing that seems to be the problem.

Also, from your previous help on setting an approach, you said click FL CHG. Is that the same as LVL CHG?

Anyway thanks again for the help 

regards, Michael.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Igbon

[Igbon]

Hi Tony, thanks for the offer.

I was trying to fly from  KLAX  25L to KSFO ILS28R.

via  VTU  BSR   CARME  ANJEE  SKUNK   BOLDR   MENLO   CEPIN   AXMUL

With a full CAT lll Landing.

 

Also, I was trying to set up an approach to the airport using Jan's directions and the map.

It was at 250 knots at 3000 ft.  20 NM away. 

 

My problem is hooking up with ILS and getting the auto land to work. Using VNAV and LNAV.

 

But any help or tips would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks,  Michael.

 

[TonyVier]

12 hours ago, Igbon said:

Hi Tony, thanks for the offer.

I was trying to fly from  KLAX  25L to KSFO ILS28R.

via  VTU  BSR   CARME  ANJEE  SKUNK   BOLDR   MENLO   CEPIN   AXMUL

With a full CAT lll Landing.

 

 

Thats a strange route. Do you use simbrief?

If not, you should, the Classic can read their files.

This should be enough for that route: SUMMR1 STOKD SERFR SERFR3

The IXEG does a great job on the ILS 

But getting her to slow down can be a bit tricky...

In spare moments I am working an a script to fully automate approach and landing to full stop, like I did for another 737. Yesterday I had my first full autoland, hands off, to full stop.

Anyways, I will find some time, later on to fly KLAX KSFO

Oh, forget about those books for a while, and just push it around, fly circuits, try to get it on the runway.

 

 

[TonyVier]

Ok, here it is (at this moment still 360p, but it will be 1440p at some time)

No narration. Two things went wrong,  descent path was too steep calculated by the FMC, so I had a VNAV disconnect,  I 360ed with my HOLD script.  Then I left the alt at 8000, while I should have been descending to app altitude, no FMS warning. I 360ed again, not on video.

I used my my Gadgets, and a little lua script I am still testing, attached here. It gives you a command in the X-Plane menu, you can assign it to a joystick button. This command disconnects both AP and AT in on go. The second time you press this button, it will silence the warnings. In between all this, it will set the throttle to zero what normally has to be done by "catching" the current throttle position, and pulling it back. 

These are nasties where the real pilot has less trouble with, because he has both hands on the disconnect switches, and one hand on the actual throttle.

Yes, I ballooned at landing. Havent been flying seriously a lot lately, being aware of this phenomenon would prevent it, I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8nddFjn1R8 

  

land.733.lua.zip

[mmerelles]

26 minutes ago, TonyVier said:

Ok, here it is (at this moment still 360p, but it will be 1440p at some time)

No narration. Two things went wrong,  descent path was too steep calculated by the FMC, so I had a VNAV disconnect,  I 360ed with my HOLD script.  Then I left the alt at 8000, while I should have been descending to app altitude, no FMS warning. I 360ed again, not on video.

I used my my Gadgets, and a little lua script I am still testing, attached here. It gives you a command in the X-Plane menu, you can assign it to a joystick button. This command disconnects both AP and AT in on go. The second time you press this button, it will silence the warnings. In between all this, it will set the throttle to zero what normally has to be done by "catching" the current throttle position, and pulling it back. 

These are nasties where the real pilot has less trouble with, because he has both hands on the disconnect switches, and one hand on the actual throttle.

Yes, I ballooned at landing. Havent been flying seriously a lot lately, being aware of this phenomenon would prevent it, I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8nddFjn1R8 

  

land.733.lua.zip

 

Hi @TonyVier

 

Anytime you see on a procedure (SID or STAR) an Altitude constrain that states i.e. "FL100A and FL150B" (which means cross this waypoint -100 or Above- and -150 or Below- there is a known VNAV limitation/shortcoming that the FMC will parse it as the higher altitude or Above always.

 

So when the procedure states for a waypoint -100A and 150B- the fmc/vnav will set 150A, which will lead to a very high VNAV profile. You should recognize this situations during flight planning and EDIT/CHANGE the waypoints on the FMC to correct those altitudes manually.

 

i.e. In your video at 12:30 please note:

-Chart for WWAVS says 15000 to 19000 ft, the FMC/VNAV set 19000 or above

-Chart for EPICK says 10000 to 15000 ft, the FMC/VNAV set 15000 ft or above

note: fix all this during route planning/entry to the FMC.

 

Hope this helps, this should be cured when redone VNAV code is available.

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by mmerelles
misspelling

[TonyVier]

Thanks

[Igbon]

Thanks Tony and others, I will be back at my computer in a day or so when I will give it all a good try.

That route is from a Mike Ray book on the IXEG 737, but I am finding a lot of inconsistencies so think I will adopt your suggestion and just do some flying and forget the books.

I think I have enough knowledge now, thanks to all you guys, to not get tripped up by every little difference.

Michael

[Igbon]

Hi Tony, thanks for the video.

I just watched it.

It does show that a landing like that is possible.

I will have to check out simbreif  because  as it stands some of the points in your route don't seem to be available for me.

"Not in database".

Also, apparently, I don't have a co route folder.

There is a lot of stuff to learn it seems.

As I said earlier I was a complete novice in all this stuff but I am learning and it is all good.

Your landing seemed pretty good, I thought.

I am going to try that landing again now.

Are some of the things in your video aftermarket things?

Like the voice readback of checklists and the Navigraph popup and the floating FMC

Thanks again,   Michael.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Igbon

[mmerelles]

59 minutes ago, Igbon said:

Hi Tony, thanks for the video.

I just watched it.

It does show that a landing like that is possible.

I will have to check out simbreif  because  as it stands some of the points in your route don't seem to be available for me.

"Not in database".

Make sure your FMC nav database is running the same navdata CYCLE. 

All aircraft FMCs runs an internal nav database that contains all nav information (waypoints, procedures, airways, airports, etc.), this information updates worldwide monthly. Airports renumber their runways due to magnetic shift, new SID/STAR procedures are added, changed or eliminated to better accomodate actual traffic demands or due to safety, etc. So the navdatabase is a living thing.

You may use included database with the aircraft or you may purchase a navigraph subscription to get latest updates. There are a number of update packages available. 

note: whatever navdatabase cycle you decide to use, make sure you select the same cycle version on simbrief, so it does suggest a flight plan valid for that cycle

 

 

Quote

Also, apparently, I don't have a co route folder.

After you install the aircraft you need to create a sub-folder labeled 'coroutes' into the ixeg 737 root folder, this is the sub-folder were all routes you save via the fmc or the routes you plan to import should be placed

The installer does not create this folder automatically.

 

Quote

There is a lot of stuff to learn it seems.

yes, certainly. The more knowledge/background you start getting about aviation and about such a complex aircraft the more you may 'feeling' a bit frustrated because you realize each topic you try to cover opens another 20 topics behind. This is normal beep going, you will get there 

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by mmerelles

[TonyVier]

1 hour ago, Igbon said:

 

Are some of the things in your video aftermarket things?

 

What mmerelles said and yes, they are "aftermarket" things.

Things that I made, my "Classic Gadgets"

See here:

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/profile/552144-tonyvier/content/&type=downloads_file

But plenty of other people have made utils for the 733...

Don't go into them (or mine) before you have some more experience.....

When I have more time, I will make a "Click To Land" for the ixeg 733, just sit back and see it happen, not realistic (they dont have this in the real thing), but fun, and maybe a bit educational

Edited March 26, 2019 by TonyVier

[Igbon]

Thanks very much guy's, this has all helped me great deal.

I look  forward to learning more. I guess it was a bit much for me to think I could just hop in a proper sim and actually be able to fly well.

I have done a couple of auto lands now.

And also some manual ones.

It really is amazing what we have at our fingertips now. So visually appealing and technically appealing. 

And to Jan, sorry again for sounding so grumpy back then.  

Thanks again Michael

Edited March 27, 2019 by Igbon

[Litjan]

2 hours ago, Igbon said:

Thanks very much guy's, this has all helped me great deal.

I look  forward to learning more. I guess it was a bit much for me to think I could just hop in a proper sim and actually be able to fly well.

I have done a couple of auto lands now.

And also some manual ones.

It really is amazing what we have at our fingertips now. So visually appealing and technically appealing. 

And to Jan, sorry again for sounding so grumpy back then.  

Thanks again Michael

No worries, Michael!

I know it can be overwhelming to have a "real" 737 under your seat of the pants... I still remember the day I sat in the real one for the first time (March 92, Paphos, Cyprus) and even though I was type rated, had been in the LevelD for many hours and was "just" going to do some touch-and-goes to get my landing training in...I was really almost overwhelmed ;-)

Keep learning and - most importantly - have fun while you do it!

Cheers, Jan

 

[frumpy]

Good call on the programming issue, Tom! I do too program little stuff once in a while, even though it's only basic if-then-else variable computing, for me things and models of reality can cause quite some irritation if they get too complex (plus, there is no one else to check the code). After all, it's hard to create code 8 hours in a row. I am happy that you are  still trying, I feel the plane is a bit of an underdog that did not receive all the praise it deserves.

[Igbon]

Hi guys, I am still having problems.

Why is it so difficult to get VNAV to work.

It often just goes off and then it is impossible to reengage, with message like check altitude in the fmc and I have the correct altitudes set according to the legs page. Or I try the next applicable altitude.  It just won't come back.

Is it supposed to be so temperamental?

Or are  there some secret parameters I need to adjust?

[TonyVier]

Make sure that you have set the right altitude when the FMS wants to descent....

If your alt is higher then the next descent planned, the FMS comes with check alt.

Nothing temperamental, just safety...

 

 

[TonyVier]

To be a bit more clear.

Pilots set the cleared altitude (by ATC)  in the MCP.

So,  if VNAV has a path descending lower than the cleared altitude, the airplane will stop at the ALT set in the MCP.

 

 

[Litjan]

Like Tony said - the VNAV logic can NEVER fly across the altitude set in the MCP - it is like a safety barrier.

The VNAV logic can also not fly in the "opposite" direction, i.e. it can´t climb if the MCP altitude is "lower" than the current altitude, and it can´t descend if the MCP altitude is higher.

So you have to assist the VNAV logic by setting your MCP altitude correctly.

Cheers, Jan

 

[Igbon]

Thanks, I'll keep trying.