martinlest

Nice call!! This doesn't look right (did wing lift and wing drag), does it?

As I say, I too had no roll yesterday... I don't know if removing the Saitek drivers has done this, but clearly most people will not have Saitek drivers installed and do not have this issue. I am also at my wits end. I certainly appreciate your patience with it... Here are four screenshots. First is just before I start the takeoff roll, then three taken at about 5 second intervals after the a/c leaves the ground. The roll to the right is not triggered by anything I press on the joystick - it happens whether I bring the gear up or not. All I did whilst taking these screenshots was pull back a little to keep some degree of climb. But the a/c rolls with no joystick input at all (or if I unplug it - or, as I mentioned above, if disconnect the X52 and use a different joystick altogether). Also tested several more a/c in my 'hangar', some Laminar, some other payware - and they all seem to be fine, no rolling or banking... "Curiouser and curiouser!"

I usually check the profile before I fly - yes, it always shows my IXEG profile, no problem. Seems all is OK now, apart from that major issue of the a/c rolling over after takeoff - that's a separate thread of course. The A/T seems fine now that I have watched the videos and am more accurate in what I do!

That was true for a few days. This morning the problem is back, even with no cpl window open. I even dug out an old MS Sidewinder joystick and tried that instead, just to determine that it isn't being caused by the Saitek hardware, but immediately after takeoff the 733 starts banking to the right with that joystick as well, and within 10 seconds, if I don't intervene, I am getting 'bank angle' warnings.. and the a/c will soon tip over and crash. Not expecting any revelations by way of a reply, but I really don't know what else to try... I did make one change in the interim: I removed the Saitek X52 drivers (as recommended on X-Plane forums), which finally enabled me to map IXEG functions to the X52 on all buttons, not just some. Can also use the 'pinkie' trigger to toggle the landing gear. Now that those are working, the (big) downside seems to be this very marked banking to the right. I can make no sense of it. If, as the 733 tips over, I load the c172 (say), or the MD80, or one of my other payware aircraft instead, the problem is gone. If I reload the 733, the problem is still there. There surely must be something in the 733 programming that is causing this, because (as I remarked in my first post), I have no issues like this if I test with other aircraft in XP11. I think I had in fact better go fly something else for a while (though I surely must get to the bottom of what is causing this at some stage!): this is getting pretty frustrating (not just for me, I suppose Jan!): third day now (is it?) of testing a troubleshooting.

Just to update this, for anyone vaguely interested.... I've been testing on the ground to see why I cannot bring the throttles back to idle... your screenshots were helpful Jan: one reason was indeed that they were not quite in the right position, I was too 'approximate' - I was making the right gestures I think, but in my setup at least the white frames need to be pretty much spot on over the ghost A/T indicators to work. The other issue is that I still cannot get any of my X52 buttons to work with the mapped commands - it's ridiculous. The joystick menu shows 'Toggle SPEED mode', but the mode in the a/c stays the same - if the green lights are on, they stay on, if they are off, they stay off. Well, no matter, I will just click on SPEED on the MCP instead. I am still nonplussed as to why this is a new problem for me this this plane, which I had flown many times... but best I move on and forget about what happened or didn't happen in the past. Hopefully, with a bit more experimentation, I can 'master' the throttles and A/T now... (and am going through the videos as well). Thank you. Hope I have not tried anyone's patience too much! EDIT: And at last.. a flight with a perfect landing (at least I thought so!) Oh, to get the X52 to use all the buttons for mappings, I removed the Saitek drivers too (I had thought removing the programming software was enough, but the drivers need to go too in XP).

Thank you very much for the screenshots - I really appreciate the time you are taking to help me with this.

Well I can only agree with you - of how they work in the IXEG 733, at least - which may well be a lot closer to reality than any other 737 I fly, or I have flown, I freely acknowledge: those include Zibo's 737-800 and previously, in FS9/FSX, PMDG models: none of those being known for their slapdash programming! And of course, those aircraft are not 737-300s, I am well aware (though how differently the autothrottle operates in say the 733 and the 738, I am not sure... yet). What I don't understand (one of the things!) is why these problems with the IXEG 733 are happening now, when for months I flew it with pretty much no issues at all. Has an update (11.50?) introduced improvements that could have brought this about? I can't simply have 'forgotten' how to fly the a/c, I wouldn't have thought. I need to do more test flights (this a/c, above almost all my other payware XP aircraft, is worth the input - I have always loved flying it!). Yes, I will watch the tutorial videos you mention before I try any more flights (I guess they are on this site, or YouTube?? No doubt I'll find them soon enough). EDIT: These three, I guess you mean? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfK3AKQYD8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9qNYUEWVxc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ8QdmNMm-E But first of all, I need to work out why I can no longer, apparently, successfully bind commands (IXEG-specific, it seems - most general commands seem to be working OK) to my Saitek X52 - they used to work just fine. They show in the menu, but don't work in the sim Thank you for sticking with this Jan.

Oh god, this is still a disaster.... as I try in vain to decelerate to taxi speed, if I look down at the pedestal my throttle levers are frozen to maximum (full forward) and no matter what I do I cannot get them to move... the a/c will start to slow down but then accelerate again in the meantime, until I run out of runway. Something basic is very wrong, but after several flights, the ending is always the same in the 733. The throttles were responsive until touchdown.. I set my X52 button to 'toggle speed mode' but it doesn't have any effect either. I am sometimes tempted, but have so far resisted the temptation, to pick my PC up and throw it out the window. I know I am not alone in getting that feeling....

Well, that always seems to be the way with me!! The Disconnect AT doesn't work at any stage - at least it very occasionally works, but mostly doesn't (which is odd in itself). Same problem whichever Saitek button I bind the command to. I don't have any Saitek software (apart from the driver) installed.. it doesn't work properly in XP11 (as you say) so there's no point. In other words, the white 'box' is aligned with 'A/T' in the ghost throttles? How would I see that I have the right throttle option at any given time, if I did not have the ghost throttles active? Given the symptoms I described (the a/c does not decelerate at all after landing) does that suggest that I have this wrong as I land, in some way? I am in mid-flight in the sim as I type this... I'll try setting my 'Disconnect AT' command to 'Toggle speed mode' (that's the one you must mean?), instead and see how that goes... Thank you for the help Jan! I seem to have a lot of posts and issues at the moment - mostly because I have decided to fly the 733 for all my XP flights this week and am hitting repeated issues which I had I just put down to being a 'one off glitch' previously. Don't mean to 'hog' your time and bandwidth!!

Nice flight earlier... until I came to land: I could not turn off the auto-throttle, (so of course the a/c didn't slow down). Tried (firstly), near to flare, using the joystick button assigned to 'Disengage AT', my usual method, but the AT switch remained where it was. I pulled down the AT switch in the cockpit (and/or used the disconnect on the throttle) - the AT switch moved down.. but still the a/c wouldn't decelerate (autobrakes were armed). Moved the throttles from idle up to full and back to idle... no help. Searched all the IXEG pdf files, online... found nothing that helped. This has happened a couple of times over the past few days (I have been flying the 733 for most of my flights). Had something gone wrong with the a/c and/or XP at that time, or am I actually doing something wrong? Is the 'Disconnect AT' function dependent upon other variables, or should it disconnect no matter what (I assume)? I have tried setting a different switch for the command, but it still doesn't do anything. It used to work OK... Thank you. I don't know why all of a sudden I am having these problems with the 733... all becomes very frustrating after a while (and am then tempted to give up and go and watch TV instead), whatever the cause (even if it's me! Especially if it is me, in fact!).

OK, nothing too catastrophic then. Thanks.

Started a new flight from cold & dark... To confirm: with no joy.cpl window active, the a/c flew exactly as it should, straight as a die. If you ever find out why the 733 does not work with that window active Jan, it'd be good to know the reason, because the X52 could then perhaps be made to work as it does with all my other payware aircraft, opening up the use of all the button options - but if not, no problem: the relief at having found the cause of this issue in one of my very favourite XP planes far outweighs any minor hardware inconvenience! X52 users can just use a different button on their joystick!

That's what I assumed. The Zibo 738 does show a big warning in the EFB if EFM is on, so I wasn't sure.. Could you kindly just remind me which functions in the IXEG 733 will not work properly with EFM off? I seem to remember seeing that described somewhere in the past, but cannot locate it now.

Perhaps the 'nitty gritty' of issues like this (in so far as XP is concerned) is how developers decide to balance their own drive for 'reality' (= "perfection"??) against what purchasers would prefer ('the customer is never wrong", as we say in the UK - though of course in fact, he or she often is: you're just not supposed to tell them so!). I think in XP, most users want a high level of reality too, but I have in the past taken issue with developers (no names) who are so purist that they seem to ignore that we are all not in a real aircraft, but sitting in front of a computer screen with a keyboard and joystick. Some things (IMHO) transfer less well from real-world to Flight Simulation than others. But for the purposes of the present thread, no worries - rather than leaving my PC running 24/7 (haha) I will just change my expectations (and checklist - at least for the 733: the Zibo 738 is tweakable, and I suppose I will leave my engine hydraulics off, as is my (bad?) habit). Or... I might even decide to rationalise all my Boeing cold starts and set things up as per your 733!

Nice .. meanwhile, in the acf file just change this: P acf/_use_1140_fm 0 to this: P acf/_use_1140_fm 1 How do you then know if the EFM is on though? Does the 733 show a warning or some such thing? Having that line in the acf file does not (predictably) set the EFM checkbox in settings to 'On'.

Hi again... thanks for the reply. Oh, yes, fuel is balanced just fine. I have still to test in a full flight (set up from cold and dark): testing with engines ready at the runway does not always call into play all the factors involved in troubleshooting an issue, I have found (in general). But after three or four test runs from 'takeoff ready', it did seem that the X52 joy.cpl being open was the trigger. I started a new flight, take-off ready with the window open.. the a/c banked. New flight, no cpl window.. no such problem, as I say. I do have a second button (not quite so conveniently placed) for toggling the gear, so for the IXEG/Zibo 737s, I will use that instead. Pretty sure that should be fine. None of my other payware a/c - or Zibo 738 (hardly ever seem to fly the Laminar ones these days!) has the same issue: their not being affected by the open cpl window (for whatever reason) would certainly explain the difference. Once I have flown a 'full flight' later, I'll post back to say whether the cpl window was the culprit, or I am back to square one!

No, I am not saying you have got it 'wrong' (far be it from me!!) ... it's just that some users may prefer things slightly differently (like some airlines to be honest - I don't think that there is such a thing as 'the' checklist, is there? There are small differences between airlines and their normal way of doing things). I, for example, (as you ask) prefer to have all four hydraulic switches off until engine startup. But no 'biggie'... I guess I can amend my IXEG checklist to fit in with what you have programmed. Or reset the switches manually before I begin, but that seems a bit 'silly'! Thanks Jan.

OK, I may possibly have found out the cause of this.... There is a problem with the Saitek X52 joystick, in that the trigger which most conveniently toggles the landing gear will not function in the X-Plane setup... plenty of posts about the issue out there. One way around this is to have the joy.cpl window open for the X52.. for some reason this enables the 'pinkie' switch (as they call it) and you can toggle the landing gear up/down using that switch. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/saitek-x52-pinkie-issue-finally-solved.521829/ For some reason (someone might say why), the IXEG 733 does not like this window being active. If I start a test flight ready to fly with the cpl window open, the plane banks as soon as it takes off. If I restart the flight (and reload the plane), without bringing up the cpl window, it does not deviate off course. Need to go and try this in a 'real flight' (i.e one which starts cold and dark at a gate and in which I run all the usual setups), but seems from the tests at least that this is the problem. I'll have to use a different X52 button to toggle the gear!

I loaded up a number of dataref outputs - I couldn't find one called "flight control deflection" - I selected those in the first screenshot. Seems the rudder is the issue? That defelction starts at zero but increases quite quickly as soon as I take off. In the XP onscreen menu joystick window and in the Windows joy.cpl panel, all the axes on the Saitek are perfectly centred. Plus, if it were a hardware problem per se, I'd expect to see this in all my aircraft. I only see it in the IXEG 733 (and in the Zibo 738... very strange!). This is also very odd: Hope someone may have some ideas.. if I just leave the joystick and do not put some quite forceful input to the left, the a/c rolls over to the right and will crash pretty quickly. Thanks.

Have been searching (in vain so far) for a way to user-set the cold & dark state.. is that possible? There are some switches that in other XP11 Boeings are set to off when the sim loads - they are on in the 733. Not a major issue of course (I can turn them off before I begin) but it would be good to have the O/H panel looking as I am used to seeing it When I first bought the 733, I wrote myself a checklist to go from cold and dark at departure gate to cold and dark (or whatever) at the destination, as I do for all my XP planes (and read it from my Kindle).. in the one for the 733 I have noted to turn switches on that are now on by default, so, although I don't now recall specifically, seems to me that the O/H panel must have originally had those switches off at startup? Thanks!

OK, thanks. I have discovered today that if I start a flight with the a/c on the runway and set 'ready for takeoff', then after setting flaps etc., on lift-off the plane behaves perfectly normally. If I have a flightplan loaded however (AP is not on, nor LNAV or VNAV!), then the plane banks. This is very odd... maybe I should simply try reinstalling. Anyway I will carry on experimenting, with your suggestions, and post back if I get anywhere. Thanks again.

Anyone any idea why, as soon as I lift off, the 733 wants to bank to the right? All the flight controls are centred... as is my joystick (Saitek X52), according to both the XP joystick menu and the joy.cpl app. No wind is set in weather and I have no scripts or other that would add any crosswind. The same on landing... as I get close to flare (AP on), the a/c becomes harder and harder to control - it wants to roll one way or the other. I am at VREF+5 at least, flaps correctly set (usually full). On touchdown, it seems to want to tip onto its side: it will roll and 'skate' around on the runway until I can get its speed down to under around 60kts. On approach, if I elect to turn off the AP and hand-fly, the moment the AP is disengaged ( have my one of my Saitek buttons set up for this, as in the instructions), the a/c starts to bank to the right. It's controllable, but the landing is always a mess.. I haven't crashed yet, but the plane is all over the place, as I described. Just about manage to keep it on the runway. Does any of this ring any bells? I didn't use to have this issue when I first bought the 733 and it is certainly spoiling the pleasure I used to have flying this plane: the problem seems to have come on with XP11.50 (EFM is on, BTW), though that is just an impression I have.. Is there something I have missed in setup for 11.50? Oddly, I have a similar issue (though a bit less pronounced) in the Zibo 738. But all my other a/c, such as the SSG b748, Toliss a319, JD a320, X-Crafts Embraers etc. etc. are perfectly fine, they do not show this problem at all. Thanks for any ideas.

Hi Jan, Thank you. After rotation I push the joystick forward, as smoothly as possible, nothing too aggressive, but so far I haven't been able to prevent the nose form reaching up to 30 degs, it happens too fast. Makes for a rather inelegant takeoff, compared say to the Zibo 738 or the FF 767... Yes, CG is 20% and I now fly rather heavier than before, I make the GW around 120K-LBS. Helps a little, as I mentioned. I will try flying the 733 today with 'Experimental Flight Model' on ((it has been 'off' so far) and post back as to whether that helps.

Hi. New to this a/c - I wonder if someone could kindly let me know the settings they use for T/O: every time i pull the joystick back at VR (Saitek X52), albeit smoothly (as required), after a few seconds the nose goes up to between 25-35 degs (!). I have to push the joystick very well forward very quickly to get to a more normal situation, but by then the speed has of course dropped dramatically. As I say, I am gentle on the joystick (similar movement to say, Zibo 738, but I 'play it by ear' of course as the a/c rotates and starts to climb), and I have trim set as per the FMC. My GW = c.120K/CoG=20%, so trim is usually around 4.2.... What values work best in the 773 to get a nicely controlled take off when hand-flying? Is there a 'sweet spot'? I have tried several practice takeoffs now and the nose always angles up to at least 25 degs before I can push the nose down again and the speed starts to climb away from a stall. I shouldn't need to underset the trim, should I? If I do so, by at least 0.5, that helps. You get a warning if it's too far off. I assume I don't touch the weight/balance settings in XP's own menu - just use the IXEG input menus? Thank you for any advice specific to this 733.

Right, thanks Jan. I'd actually seen the first two - though I haven't read all twelve pages of 'Things that are NOT going to be in V1.33'. Will wait for the doors to be implemented at some stage. From the pdf mention, I assumed that it already was... M.