Bit the bullet...

[Intrance]

Alright, after hearing that I can buy & test the aircraft in the demo of X-Plane, I decided to buy it. Even if it's not up my alley, I do like supporting small developers, and anyone making a Jetstream has a star in my book .

 

Having said that, here's a list of things I noticed in the 30-60 minutes of quality time I spent with the addon.... Please note, these might not be bugs, but developer choice, sim limitations or just things in which the addon differs from my experience with real J32's.

 

 

Cockpit

 

• Cabin lights... why are they not linked to the cabin light switches on the panel? The manual mentions that the normal way to turn them on is via the galley in the back, but the cockpit has Cabin Light switches in all planes (I've been in at least). Developer choice to put them on the yoke menu?
• Reading lights switch... It's meant to activate the reading lights in the cabin, so passengers can use those for ehm... reading . I was kind of suprised when I turned them on and the cockpit lit up, haha.
• Panel Master Switches... would it be possible to just let these switch off the panel lights instead of acting as backup Avionic Master Switches (if I read the manual correctly, that is their current function)? The Avionic Masters aren't that hard to reach from the co-pilot seat in my humble opinion (both in the simulated cockpit and in RL). Turning each section of lighting off is quite time consuming during flight though.
• Speaking off the lights... On real aircraft there is a panel flood light switch, located on the left of the mode selection buttons, which controls the bright panel floods. In the addon they are controlled with the Left/Center/Right switches. One switch could be easier perhaps?
• Temperature control... Ok, this might be going in a little bit too deep... but with temperature control set to Auto and the Temperature Selectors full left (default position), cabin temp should be about 18C. The temperature selectors have a range from 18C at the lowest position to 23C at the highest. So 25C is a little bit much.
• Gear horn... the inhibit button is there and functional, but the horn itself does not seem to function as it would in the real aircraft.
• Very small one... the flap control CB reads FALP .

 

Flight Model

 

• Overall it seemed to be a little bit too nervous and quick to respond. This might have to do with my joystick setup, but at some points roll rates just seemed way too high. It also doesn't change speeds as quickly and easily as a real one can do. So take care to slow down sufficiently for approach, perhaps plan your descent with a little bit of level flight at the end to lose speed. Speed seemed to be quite high in most cases as well, but I will have to check into that a bit more thoroughly.
• The pull to the right is just plain awful and not realistic in any way. I don't know if this is a general X-Plane issue of developer choice, or a combination of both. Whatever it is, it makes the plane almost unflyable for me. A couple of times, even full left aileron trim wouldn't stop the aircraft from rolling right. The only time I have ever had to use full aileron trim in the real one was during engine failures/V1 cuts in the full motion sim and simulated engine failures during proficiency checks.

 

In the end, I quite like it, but I will not purchase X-Plane to fly it unless there will be some changes in the flight model, particularly the yaw/roll to the right. Still, standup job!

[Cameron]

Thanks for purchasing.

 

I have been having discussions with Austin on CCW props in X-Plane, and we are going to be investigating this. In short, X-Plane should be taking care of any roll simulation. He agrees that CCW props should NOT roll to the right, but rather neutral out. What will come of this remains to be seen, as we're early in on discussions.

[Japo32]

First of all, thanks for buying the plane. It is very important for me, as this is the only job I have. Make these planes.

 

I must coincide with you. The first time I get inside a flight sim, I was very surprised that:

 

• When there is rain, there is no waterdrops in almost all 3D cockpits that I fly, and if there are, the wippers don't clean them so I cannot see correctly through the windows. Something is very important when flying. Specially in VFR rules.
• Same thing happens to me when the ice comes. I don't see it outside the plane, so I don't know when the icing is producing unless the plane has a switch that illuminates and tell me that there is ice. Also annoying that Ice only is produced under some rare circustances, and if I have an airport at -50ºC the ice don't comes! Even when there is supposed to snow all the landscape outside where all green.
• That if I crash there are not pieces around of any of the planes I flought. That there is not to worry to make an inspection of the plane before flying, because after some flights I discovered that there was no failures because a number of flights before I did something bad that had to break something in the plane inside.
• That almost all aircrafts didn't simulate a air conditioning system, because they think that the tempererature you feel is going to be different in your own room than in the flight deck or cabin.
• That everytime I appear in IVAO there is someone appearing suddently in the middle of the start of the runway when I am ready to get in.
• This one was for good! I was very very surprised that I never vomit, because feel sick when hard flying, When I did it sometimes in real life! That was a good point!
• Also I was surprised for good that I could pause the sim!!! My wife is not mad about this anymore! we can have dinner together!
• That in FSX the flightdinamics are something like a joke compared with real life.

 

hahaha... Well I hope you see the good sarcastic way.

I wanted to say you again thanks, but I would also liked to see the good things the plane has, that makes me fly it as well as I continue flying in simulators even I know they have lots of limitations.

 

When I made the light system I readed the documents (that I had!!! You pilots, have all the documents of the plane, and also fly it. I never was inside a Jetstream, nor a CRJ200, nor a Mentor, nor a javelin, nor a Seamax. I have all information from documents and pilots that help me before making it).

The first thing I saw about the Jetstream is that for sure there are not 2 identical Jetstream in cockpit switches. I have almost 3 or 4 different configurations real photos of the overhead.. and no-number of different configurations in front panel.

When I choose to put a "read light" the way it is, is because a sim-pilot don't have one thing you real pilots have:

 

• You, real pilots, have the hability to touch. Even with the eyes closed you can touch and know where is the switch to turn things on.
• There are 4 hands in cockpit so you receive help.
• You have the really great better 3D graphics engine in the world. Something that you put the number of lights you want inside the engine with full shadows!!! the performance don't go down!! In xplane or sims, you have very stricted rules.

What makes those limitations is give you one important rule: You must adapt! and I did it. For sure there will be those discrepances in lights than the real plane, but for sure there will be others that are as the real plane. I would like to hear those similarities also. That would be good.

 

About the flight dinamics. Well.. as said in the documentation that everybody can read for free. "This plane is not

certified by Bae Systems and not pretend to. Not use this plane to simulate real procedures." When I did this plane I trully knew that it was not like the real plane, not because I didn't want to make it like it, but because I have a lot of limitations. Not only simulator ones, but also my limitations:

 

• I am not an engineer. I don't know too much about flight dynamics. Only what i have learned. I was studying Phisics in university and saw little things about fluids but not too much
• xplane is for me the most advanced flight simulator, but is not perfect. That is the reason still is in development. My part as member of Laminar Research is to improve the graphics of planes. But still there are things as you can see with the CCW engines that should be better. X-Plane makes simulations of a great number of planes. Is nothing specific of one plane, and that is the way it should be, because we are the external creators that have to make those aproximations.

With that said.. those 2 points are increasing in level, so the plane I do today is better than the one did before.. and the update of the jetstream 1.x will be better than the 1.01 BUT it will be NEVER as the real one. Even the PMDG 737ngx is no like the real one and will never be.. because is inside a simulator that has lots of bad things.

 

When I made the Jetstream I made an aproximation to the plane. I wanted to create sensations when flying. I was having pilot lessons in sailors and I wanted to travel those sensations to my creations. For me is imposible that if it is raining outside there is no raindrops in teh windshield.. and of course they can be cleaned if there are wippers. No icing.. no fog... I wanted to recreated that bad feeling in the stomach when something is wrong... and I think I succeded.

 

Just in a particular point. The hard bank to the right. Yes.. the plane doesn't to that (well I would like to hear all the pilots.. but yes the most would be "no it don't bank that hard") I want to say you that it has to. It has to (not so hard, that is true) because it has an opposite force to the other side because the CCW engines. The over-turn is made by xplane, so if I modify it (I could) I would have to change some numbers that are real ones (like thrust of the real plane, weight, rpm of engines.. etc... I cannot change those numbers. They come from manuals).

BUT even that is not real... I LOVE IT!!! because is so challenging!! You say you can't fly it. That is normal when you apply the real procedures of flying to this plane. Because this plane is not as the real one IN SOMETHINGS BUT OTHERS YES (I would like to hear from you also the similarities) , it has not to be flought as the real one. So if you put the aileron trim to the left or, make the adjustments with rudder, I always have take off the plane correctly leveled for all good sake of the invisible passengers I have (other thing that surprises me from reality). If I can do it a real pilot of course can.

 

I come from the game industry. The way I see my creations are always the same. Have challenges inside. In the civil simulators we have the challenges resume in cloud visibility and wind. I wanted to introduce also the failures if you do not fly correctly.

 

I know my aproximation of the plane is not good for you. You don't have to bite the bullet if you don't want to. Nobody force to it. I only want to give good sensations to my costummers. don't want to satisphice to everyone. That is imposible.

But I must say that also I heared good sensations of this plane from real pilots (not of this plane. Real pilots of other planes), and from users.

 

For sure if I have the tools and the knowledge in future, I will make those flight dinamics more as the real one. One important thing would be someone could invite me to fly it (of course near my home). I always tried before. Asked always to visit the planes to make photos and have sounds and sensations.. But always the answer was the same. Buy the ticket, and if I am flying (the pilot that contacted me) inside I can ask the pilot if you can get inside. Believe me it is difficult to have an aproximation to the plane like that. 

In this one I wanted to give thanks to the 2 pilots that gave me all the documentation, photos and sounds. But sensations cannot be answered.

 

Hope you see in future the good aproximations to the real plane the aircraft has. I don't  move with bad news but good smiles. But as you said... "In the end, I quite like it" you don't have to purchase xplane10 that is more expensive. You could try xplane9 and continue liking it! 

Edited December 27, 2012 by Japo32

[arb65912]

Gentlemen, I have read word by word the post and the replies and I consider it very beneficial for JS32 users.

 

@ Intrance:  I  love your comments but as Javier already said, there are many good things in JS32 that beat hands down stock X-Plane aircraft and majority if not all freeware and many payware aircraft.

 

I believe that your comments, since they come from real life pilot, will give Javier a better picture of the plane dynamics and he might use some of them in perfecting the JS32.

 

On the other hand, I have read many times that Javier DID NOT intend to make the plane to be like real one because of the X-Plane limitations, lack of ability to touch in dark ( no sarcasm here ...lol) and lack of spherical vision in X-Plane.

 

This is simply how I see it, you post your comments , negative and positive, Javier will use SOME of them if he wants to, nobody gets hurt.

 

@Javier: I perfectly understand the explanations and reasoning you provided as a response to Intrance's post and I agree 100%

 

I am only a student pilot and have no real life flying experience but as a aviation enthusiast and a heavy simmer , I can tell you and I am not afraid to say it ..... your JS32 is THE BEST X-Plane I have purchased and flew till now out of all X-Plane creations and I have quite a few of them.

 

On a side note, I flew yesterday for many hours and everything works great, I will make a reply on trim settings in the other thread.

 

I am having a great time flying JS32 and you made it possible.

 

Now, I see some guys cocking their guns ..lol, I would pay twice of the price for JS32 if I had to or even more because what I bought is worth every penny.

 

Thank you Javier for your work and thank you Intrance for a great input.

 

Cheers, AJ 

[Intrance]

I understand your point of view a bit better now as well Javier. It is just different from my approach to simming, but that's something personal.

 

Yes, there are also a lot of similarities between the add-on and the real thing. But since it's a simulation and that's supposed to be the case, I didn't point them out .Still, I will try to refrain from sounding too negative, since I am also a bit biased due to the experience on the real aircraft.

 

What you created is miles ahead of the only other J31/32 addon I'm aware off .

[MELGA]

 

Flight Model

 

• Overall it seemed to be a little bit too nervous and quick to respond. This might have to do with my joystick setup, but at some points roll rates just seemed way too high. It also doesn't change speeds as quickly and easily as a real one can do. So take care to slow down sufficiently for approach, perhaps plan your descent with a little bit of level flight at the end to lose speed. Speed seemed to be quite high in most cases as well, but I will have to check into that a bit more thoroughly.
•  

 

I´m not a real pilot but i fly a lot in turboprops in the  Flight Engineer seat, and i think this is one of the most annoying "bugs" in X-plane and worst in FSX, i don´t think this is a problem of the addon makers but resides in the core of the simulator.

But i think people like Javier, Cameron, Tkyler or Goran, just to mention some, who earned a great deal of respect.(because x-plane owes a lot to them) must claim for a better perfomance in these little aspects with the Laminar Research Team.

I would like 10.30 version concerned with these aspects and others like the start locks,a more challeging control of EGT, the effect of a tailwind in the temperature and a lot more, ok more flightdynamics and systems.

I´m adicted to this plane and apreciated very much the concern with the battery voltage and the engine start.

What an amazing simulation you made.

Edited January 29, 2013 by MELGA