Michael_Chang Posted September 10, 2012 Report Posted September 10, 2012 http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/made-canada-avro-arrow-could-rise-again-homegrown-163052593.html?_esi=1So just now it was announced that the avro arrow may be revived and turned into a modern fighter as a cheaper solution to the current F-35 stealth fighter planes. According to the article, the Avro would be able to out-perform the F35 in several ways. As a proud Canadian, it would be great to see this legendary bird fly again, but i'm really interested in what the rest of you have to say about this project!~MJC Quote
i<3xplane10 Posted September 10, 2012 Report Posted September 10, 2012 You have no idea how happy I am... Quote
Michael_Chang Posted September 10, 2012 Author Report Posted September 10, 2012 as a fellow canadian and avid supporter of the avro, i think i can guess Quote
eaglewing7 Posted September 11, 2012 Report Posted September 11, 2012 Not even a hope in hell of that happening. Why, because it was rejected months ago by the Federal Government.While it is a nice thought, it isn't exactly the most practical design for the modern era. The reason being, if Canada wants a purely supersonic interceptor - with no other missions in mind, the CF-105, is a good choice. But, Canada is a NATO and NORAD member, so were destined to be slinging bombs, and other garbage around, making the Super Hornet a good choice. The F-35 is a pariah, and a waste...Besides the fact that the Arrow is over 50 years old, if production needed to be put into effect, you would need to get CAD and what not up and running, and the fact is there is a good deal of information out there so it could be done. Of course, with the way technology has evolved, you could get a very good fighter, with FBW, FADEC, etc...I'd be all for seeing a Mk.3 Arrow with the Iroquois engines. We can dream... Quote
Jim Kallinen Posted September 11, 2012 Report Posted September 11, 2012 Would be nice to have a good Avro Arrow for XP10 though. My old friend Dayle Green had been working on one for many years and I guess he has moved on toother projects to consume his time. He was rebuilding a Jeep from the ground up. 1 Quote
clavel9 Posted September 11, 2012 Report Posted September 11, 2012 making the Super Hornet a good choice. The F-35 is a pariah, and a waste...Agreed. Quote
Spacedust Posted September 11, 2012 Report Posted September 11, 2012 Even if the Arrow was superior to all other jets in the fifties (which was never proofed in reality) it would be unsuited for modern times. If they have to modernise it, they have to redesign the whole package to match it with the modern competitors. Yes Phantoms and Sovjet aircraft from the sixties are still used by modern air forces, but more as reserve or for simple missions (most air superiority fighters of that time are used nowadays as bomb carriers). Although I don't have trust in the JSF program and would like to see a new competitor arise, I doubt it will be an Arrow...But yes, we need a very detailed Arrow in X-plane, to check whether it was the best fighter of that time! Quote
Orcair Posted September 15, 2012 Report Posted September 15, 2012 (edited) I'm all for FA-18E/Fs and perhaps some Growlers (we can dream can't we). Similar aircraft to our FA-18As with two-engines for the arctic (yes I do know that the F135 engine is reliable but it is the arctic, stuff happens...) and it CAN ACTUALLY BE REFUELLED BY OUR CC-150Ts instead of the F-35 which cannot. And with the money saved go buy 20 C-27s to replace the Buffaloes. However I do think it is a crying shame it wasn't developed and we got the voodoo. O well, these things happen... Edited September 15, 2012 by Orcair Quote
Patrik Hedström Posted December 24, 2012 Report Posted December 24, 2012 I say NO to the F-35 (which is a peice of crap IMO) and YES to the Rafale! Quote
Orcair Posted December 24, 2012 Report Posted December 24, 2012 While the Rafale is a beautiful fighter, only 101 have been built, which makes spares more expensive. As well, the F/A-18E/F is currently cheaper by flyaway costs, as well as Canada already having similar maintenance regimes, simulators etc for the F/A-18A which would make it easier to transfer all the support to an aircraft that is based on what we already have. As well, we can purchase the F-35 when it matures and wire the F/A-18Fs as E/A-18Gs allowing us to have further electronic warfare capabilities. It is also important to note that the U.S. Armed Forces operate the F/A-18 Super Hornet making it easier for Canada to train and support the Super Hornets. Quote
Ryan M. Posted December 24, 2012 Report Posted December 24, 2012 I say NO to the F-35 (which is a peice of crap IMO) and YES to the Rafale!How can you call one of the most advanced fighters out there a piece of crap? More countries have ordered the F-35 than the rafale. just because you don't like the "exterior styling" or something like that, doesn't mean it isn't good. The F-35 is like the harrier, but better. Quote
Patrik Hedström Posted December 24, 2012 Report Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) How can you call one of the most advanced fighters out there a piece of crap? More countries have ordered the F-35 than the rafale. just because you don't like the "exterior styling" or something like that, doesn't mean it isn't good. The F-35 is like the harrier, but better.That is your opinion, I have mine. And its not the "exterior styling" that I don't like... Edited December 24, 2012 by Erik Winter Quote
Ryan M. Posted December 24, 2012 Report Posted December 24, 2012 "More countries have ordered the F-35 than the rafale" is not an opinion, it's a fact. Quote
eaglewing7 Posted December 24, 2012 Report Posted December 24, 2012 Just because countries have ordered something, does not mean that they will actually purchase them. Besides, the Rafael was never really produced as an export fighter, but Dassault would likely be more than willing to make a batch up for anyone to purchase... As for the F-35, it's not the right aircraft for Canada, actually it's not really right for anyone, because from the start it has been an airframe with too many goals to meet, so too many compromises have had to be made. To make it stealth, you can't have any external hard points (low payload capacity due to a small internal bay). Avionics wizardry trying to do too many things at once has caused numerous cases of severe pilot disorientation. Single engine, which is fine if your not going to operate over vast tracks of tundra, is not fine for Canada. We all know, and the top brass in the RCAF knows, that having two engines has been a life saver many times over for Canadian pilots flying the venerable Hornet. Besides that, even with the most advanced jet engines, they will still fail. This is not like flying a single engine passenger aircraft around, these are fighter aircraft that are designed to get beat up on a regular basis on training flights, simulated combat, etc, which puts a huge strain on all components, but especially engine components. When your single engine conks out over Hudson's Bay, or over Baffin Island, your well and truly SOL. The best option for Canada is to go to Boeing, and order 65+ Super Hornets. You will then have maintenance, training, and weapons commonality, which will be a huge asset for training existing pilots. Whereas with the F-35, every Hornet pilot in Canada is essentially going back to flight school... Second best bet, is the Eurofighter Typhoon, because, it is a twin, but also because it is still in production, thus your more likely to get a deal, but it will be expensive none the less... The other option, is to ignore what the US has been telling Canadian's since the 1950's, and tell everyone to screw off, and design, build, and maintain our own fleet of Canadian designed and built aircraft. Canada has the capability to do this, we just need to gear up our industry, and by going purely Canadian, we can ensure we get the very best aircraft, and you can contribute to keeping the costs down, supporting local industries, growing the economy, etc... Quote
Patrik Hedström Posted December 24, 2012 Report Posted December 24, 2012 "More countries have ordered the F-35 than the rafale" is not an opinion, it's a fact. I was not talking about that rj, I was talking about your opinion on the F-35. Quote
Spacedust Posted January 3, 2013 Report Posted January 3, 2013 While the Rafale is a beautiful fighter, only 101 have been built, which makes spares more expensive. Don't forget India bought 200+ Rafales recently! And if you want cheap spare parts, India is your country! Quote
Orcair Posted January 3, 2013 Report Posted January 3, 2013 Don't forget India bought 200+ Rafales recently! And if you want cheap spare parts, India is your country!However it has been established that the bidding process was by cost entirely Quote
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