Demo for 10 just won't work

[maestrogn]

Hi, folks. I just built a new machine that is running wonderfully. AMD Phenom Quad, 8 gigs of RAM, onboard video. I also have the CH Yoke, the THrottle Quadrant and the Saitek Multipanel. I load the demo 10 and it loads up fine. However, the keyboard commands don't work (tried F1 and F2) and nothing happens to the throttles. Set up the CH Yoke and Throttle Quad in the X-plane menus. The yoke works (I can see it move in the onscreen cockpit) but nothing will operate the throttles (also, flaps work on the Quad).

What am I doing wrong?

Also, the pane is moving on the runway at about 1 fps. The computer checks out -- I even tested the chip with Prime95 and it passed with flying colors, same for MemTest. I'd love to move over from FSX, but, not at this rate.

What am I doing wrong?

mGN

[Cameron]

How much vram is on that onboard video? That is going to be a huge bottleneck for you without doubt!

[maestrogn]

Don't know, Cameron. Here is an install log if that helps.

Windows 6.1 (build 7601/2) Service Pack 1

This is a 64-bit version of Windows.

CPU type: 586

Physical Memory (total for computer): 4025671680

Maximum Virtual Memory (for X-Plane only): 2147352576

CPU 0: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-Core Processor Speed (mhz): 2500

CPU 0: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-Core Processor Speed (mhz): 2500

CPU 0: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-Core Processor Speed (mhz): 2500

CPU 0: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-Core Processor Speed (mhz): 2500

X-System folder:'', case sensitive=0

WGL_COLOR_BITS_ARB 32.000000

WGL_RED_BITS_ARB 8.000000

WGL_GREEN_BITS_ARB 8.000000

WGL_BLUE_BITS_ARB 8.000000

WGL_ALPHA_BITS_ARB 8.000000

WGL_DEPTH_BITS_ARB 24.000000

WGL_STENCIL_BITS_ARB 8.000000

WGL_SAMPLE_BUFFERS_ARB 0.000000

WGL_SAMPLES_ARB 0.000000

WGL_SWAP_METHOD_ARB 8234.000000

OpenGL Vendor : ATI Technologies Inc.

OpenGL Render : ATI Radeon HD 4200

OpenGL Version : 3.3.10750 Compatibility Profile Context (330)

OpenGL Extensions: GL_AMDX_debug_output GL_AMD_conservative_depth GL_AMD_debug_output GL_AMD_depth_clamp_separate GL_AMD_draw_buffers_blend GL_AMD_name_gen_delete GL_AMD_performance_monitor GL_AMD_sample_positions GL_AMD_shader_stencil_export GL_ARB_ES2_compatibility GL_ARB_blend_func_extended GL_ARB_color_buffer_float GL_ARB_copy_buffer GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float GL_ARB_depth_clamp GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_draw_buffers GL_ARB_draw_buffers_blend GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex GL_ARB_draw_instanced GL_ARB_explicit_attrib_location GL_ARB_fragment_coord_conventions GL_ARB_fragment_program GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow GL_ARB_fragment_shader GL_ARB_framebuffer_object GL_ARB_framebuffer_sRGB GL_ARB_geometry_shader4 GL_ARB_get_program_binary GL_ARB_half_float_pixel GL_ARB_half_float_vertex GL_ARB_imaging GL_ARB_instanced_arrays GL_ARB_map_buffer_range GL_ARB_multisample GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_occlusion_query GL_ARB_occlusion_query2 GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_point_sprite GL_ARB_provoking_vertex GL_ARB_sampler_objects GL_ARB_seamless_cube_map GL_ARB_separate_shader_objects GL_ARB_shader_bit_encoding GL_ARB_shader_objects GL_ARB_shader_precision GL_ARB_shader_stencil_export GL_ARB_shader_texture_lod GL_ARB_shading_language_100 GL_ARB_shadow GL_ARB_shadow_ambient GL_ARB_sync GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_buffer_object GL_ARB_texture_buffer_object_rgb32 GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_compression_rgtc GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_float GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_texture_multisample GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two GL_ARB_texture_rectangle GL_ARB_texture_rg GL_ARB_texture_rgb10_a2ui GL_ARB_texture_snorm GL_ARB_timer_query GL_ARB_transform_feedback2 GL_ARB_transform_feedback3 GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_ARB_uniform_buffer_object GL_ARB_vertex_array_bgra GL_ARB_vertex_array_object GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object GL_ARB_vertex_program GL_ARB_vertex_shader GL_ARB_vertex_type_2_10_10_10_rev GL_ARB_viewport_array GL_ARB_window_pos GL_ATI_draw_buffers GL_ATI_envmap_bumpmap GL_ATI_fragment_shader GL_ATI_meminfo GL_ATI_separate_stencil GL_ATI_texture_compression_3dc GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3 GL_ATI_texture_float GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_bindable_uniform GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate GL_EXT_blend_func_separate GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_copy_buffer GL_EXT_copy_texture GL_EXT_direct_state_access GL_EXT_draw_buffers2 GL_EXT_draw_instanced GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample GL_EXT_framebuffer_object GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB GL_EXT_geometry_shader4 GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters GL_EXT_gpu_shader4 GL_EXT_histogram GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil GL_EXT_packed_float GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_provoking_vertex GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_subtexture GL_EXT_texgen_reflection GL_EXT_texture3D GL_EXT_texture_array GL_EXT_texture_buffer_object GL_EXT_texture_compression_latc GL_EXT_texture_compression_rgtc GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_cube_map GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_texture_integer GL_EXT_texture_lod GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_texture_rectangle GL_EXT_texture_sRGB GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent GL_EXT_texture_snorm GL_EXT_texture_swizzle GL_EXT_timer_query GL_EXT_transform_feedback GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_EXT_vertex_array_bgra GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_KTX_buffer_region GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_conditional_render GL_NV_copy_depth_to_color GL_NV_explicit_multisample GL_NV_float_buffer GL_NV_half_float GL_NV_primitive_restart GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_texture_barrier GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_SUN_multi_draw_arrays GL_WIN_swap_hint WGL_EXT_swap_control

threaded_avail : 0 tex_clamp_avail : 1 add_env_avail : 1

combine_avail : 1 dis_fog_avail : 0 instance_avail : 1

two-sided stencil: 0 separate stencil : 1 tex_comp_avail : 1

vbo_avail : 1 pbo_avail : 1 automini_avail : 1

aniso_avail : 1 fsaa_avail : 1 occlude_avail : 1

sprites_avail : 1

sblend_avail : 1/1

vprog_avail : 1 (2147483647)

fprog_avail : 1 (2147483647/2147483647/2147483647/2147483647)

depth_tex_avail : 1

shad_objs_avail : 1

vshader_avail : 1 (29/16384/128/32/16/16384)

fshader_avail : 1 (16384)

glsl_avail : 1 (3.30/100)

first-gen shaders: 0

gshader_avail : 1 buniform_avail : 1 shad_lod_avail : 1

gpu_shad4_avail : 1 framebuf_avail : 1 frameblit_avail : 1

drawbuf_avail : 1 drawbuf2_avail : 1 tex_float_avail : 1

non_pots_avail : 1 packed_stencil : 1 texture_rg : 1

framebuffer_srgb : 1 sync/fence : 1

max tex units : 8 (16/16)

max iso filtering: 16.000000

max texture size : 8192 (hardware limit)

max point size : 63.000000

idx in vram : 1

use_vsync1 : 0

use_vsync2 : 0

This video card is: DX10 or 11 - With instancing (found glMapBufferRange)

CPU count : 4

os_dir_this_app =X:\

os_dir_desktop =C:\Users/Administrator/Desktop/

os_dir_default_apps =C:\Users/Administrator/Desktop/

os_dir_temp =C:\Users/ADMINI~1/AppData/Local/Temp/

os_dir_prefs =C:\Users/Administrator/AppData/Local/

Start of MD5 at 19.557507

End of MD5 at 140.289722

Clean exit from threads.

[maestrogn]

Also, what would vram have to do with no controls working?

mGN

[Cameron]

Also, what would vram have to do with no controls working?

mGN

Correlating memory exhaustion to issues. This card is roughly 512MB, and X-Plane likes to suck up around 1GB.

You say the plane is moving at about 1fps...is that actual performance (as in is it really laggy), or are purely speaking about speed of the aircraft roll and not laggy performance of the sim as a whole?

Can you verify that in your joystick setup window that the throttle axis is assigned to the throttle and you can see it move when you move the throttle up and down on your joystick (in the joystick setup window, remember)?

[maestrogn]

Hi, Cameron.

The video is currently coming off the motherboard, so I don't know where it gets its RAM. I have a G force card that I can install.

As for performance of the sim, I saw the 1 fps when the demo first ran (that down through the clouds to the airport and the 74 bit). The screen changes once a second (fps could be faster, but that's what it looks like.

Because I cannot get throttles to work, I haven't seen the real performance. Right now, the plane will move down the runway very slowly (at idle thrust?), again, at that visual 1 frame every second.

Yes, I've checked on the controls setup and all the visuals move when I move the various controls with the yoke and the quad. What interests me here is that some of the assigned controls work -- flaps, spoilers, roll on the yoke. But, nothing else. So, when I move them while looking at the setup screen, they are clearly being read by the program (the bars move as expected).

Also, note that the keyboard controls don't work ... F1 and F2 do nothing to the throttles.

I have reinstalled the program on a second HDD in the machine; same performance (or lack thereof).

I'm sure you find this as baffling as I do. I thank you for your help.

[maestrogn]

Also, I just checked and I have the demo 10.05 rl -- is there any demo beta to see if reworked ati drivers will help? Or, does the full version work -- I don't want to shell out any money on that chance, I think you'll understand. So, I'd like to get the demo flying.

I did hook up my laptop to the Yoke and Quad and could fly and land the 74 in the demo -- mystery as to why it won't work on the desktop!!!

mgn

Edited August 19, 2012 by maestrogn

[maestrogn]

One more question -- when I'm on the settings page for the controls, all of the inputs coming from the yoke and throttle quad show up in those horizontal windows. They all show the appropriate graphic for the motion of the levers. So, if they all show up there, why don't they work when I go back to the plane?

[Cameron]

Given the extremely slow performance on the machine you speak of it may be taking an eternity for anything to register while everything else computes in the background. I really don't have a clear cut answer for you, and at this point I think your best bet is to contact Laminar Research.

[maestrogn]

Will do Carmeron. I don't think that the machine is thre problem because I can run Dragon Naturally Speaking, a notorious machine hog and it runs at about 98% accuracy and right with my dictation. It baffles me, so, I'll contact the company.

[Cameron]

Will do Carmeron. I don't think that the machine is thre problem because I can run Dragon Naturally Speaking, a notorious machine hog and it runs at about 98% accuracy and right with my dictation. It baffles me, so, I'll contact the company.

System hog or not, your onboard vram is not utilized anywhere near to what X-Plane would require.

[maestrogn]

Cameron, thank you so much for your help. I'm only now, thanks to your replies, realizing the difference between vram and ram and had no idea of the severe limitation on the onboard video of the mobo. I have a dedicated video card (and NVDIA GeForce GTX 500 ti) that I had not yet installed and will do so and try X-:Plane again with the 2 gigs of vram that has and see what is happening.

If you don't mind the two more questions,

• I can understand why the sever limitation of vram would make the fps so slow, but how would that figure into controls not working (like gear up). I will still write to Laminar even if my fps go up with the NVIDIA card plugged in.
  
• Do I need individual drivers from CH for the Yoke and Saitek for the Quad, or, is that all supposed to be taken care of in X-Plane's architecture?
  

Again, thanks so much for the help -- it is helping me to learn more about how to make this thing work.

mGN

[Cameron]

If you don't mind the two more questions,

• I can understand why the sever limitation of vram would make the fps so slow, but how would that figure into controls not working (like gear up). I will still write to Laminar even if my fps go up with the NVIDIA card plugged in.

With slow FPS your entire system is essentially at a standstill. Like I said, it may not seem like your gear up is registering, but it may well be and is taking forever just to get there. A lot of weird stuff can go down when your ram is being exhausted.

• Do I need individual drivers from CH for the Yoke and Saitek for the Quad, or, is that all supposed to be taken care of in X-Plane's architecture?
  

No, these are plug n' play devices, really. There's no need to install additional drivers.

[maestrogn]

Dear Cameron:

Please accept my apologies for my faulty logic and assumptions about how the complex X-plane should work on my conputer.

When you mentioned the little amount of vram, it alerted me that, in my rebuild of this computer, I had neglected to install my NVIDIA video card.

This morning I installed it with the latest drivers downloaded from NVIDIA and, what do you know, X-plane runs perfectly fine.

So, thanks to you, I now have the correct video card installed, the computer runs great, and I just ordered the global X-Plane 10 along with the Bombardier 300 Captain's edition and cannot wait for those to arrive so I can get out of the 74 and see my home scenery.

Thank you so much for your patience!

mGN

[guym-p]

I have only just read this thread, and I was delighted that you found the solution in just over 24 hours. It's fascinating to have such a clear demonstration of the difference a powerful graphics card makes.

A couple of questions came up:

The demo is exactly the same as the full version, except that flying time is limited, and you are only given a tiny puddle of scenery to play in. In other words, what you've bought is the ability to go wherever you like ...

X-Plane 10 is changing very fast, with new versions ready for download quite frequently. When you install from the DVDs, you might find it's an older version than the demo you downloaded. Just run the updater, and keep running it every so often, or whenever you read a good review about the latest version.

X-Plane 10 has so many new graphics-bending features that it will be a couple of years before the average, off-the-shelf computer and graphics cards can run it with every option ticked or set to maximum. You will just have to fiddle about until you find a compromise between cosmetic realism and frames per second. There's no hard rule because some people need the aircraft to be as responsive as possible, while others like to see lots of detail on the ground.

The switch from FSX to X-Plane will take getting used to. If you have any questions, don't be embarrassed to ask. Samaritans outnumber trolls here.

Welcome to X-Plane! I hope you enjoy it!

Guy.

[maestrogn]

Guy, thank you so much for the welcome and the advice. I've saved the text under an X-Plane advice and solutions folder.

This has been quite a go-postal on Microsoft week -- rebuilding this machine and getting everything working has been an exercise in frustration to say the least. Now, all is working at top speed, at the right temperatures, chip and memory pass tests with flying colors, etc. I don't want to see the inside of this case for quite a while!

The XP 10 disks should be here in two days. I'll install those and then the Bombardier and go flying in what feels like a far more realistic sim.

mGN

[Cameron]

Glad to hear things are sorted! Enjoy it!

[chris k]

Welcome to the X-Plane Universe...!

If you need anything, just ask. There's some great people here who can help out and point you in the right direction for add-ons, aircraft, scenery, tips-n-tricks, etc.

- CK.

Edited August 20, 2012 by chris k

[maestrogn]

Thanks everyone.

chris k: I do have something to ask. No matter how I googled it, I could not find support for my Saitek Multipanel. Do you know of anything past that driver for the Mac side in 2009? I'd love to have the utilit8y of that panel working with the X-Plane autopilot. Got my Yoke and Throttle Quad working fine ... now we just need the Saitek.

Thanks load for the offer of help.

mGN

[Cameron]

Thanks everyone.

chris k: I do have something to ask. No matter how I googled it, I could not find support for my Saitek Multipanel. Do you know of anything past that driver for the Mac side in 2009? I'd love to have the utilit8y of that panel working with the X-Plane autopilot. Got my Yoke and Throttle Quad working fine ... now we just need the Saitek.

Thanks load for the offer of help.

mGN

Have a gander here: http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=14646

[maestrogn]

Thanks Cameron, that may do the trick. I've had no luck getting it to work right with the 74 in the XP10 demo. My full global will be here in the next several days and then I'll load in my new CRJ 300 (that has an A/P more like I'm used to). At that point, I'll really put the Saitek box through its paces.

Thanks to all for a nice, warm welcome to the forum!

mGN

[maestrogn]

Cameron:

An update -- bought the full XP 10 and have all controls working and fps is very good. Now, I'm takling the complex problem of how to get better scenery in my favorite areas -- a whole other issue! Again, thanks for all your help.

mGN