Gizmo64 appears to be locking up X Plane...

[Near76]

I have the latest updates for X Plane and my graphics drivers (6700XT) and X-Plane 11 has been working well.  I decided to switch to using Vulkan from Open GL and ran into an issue where the screen would freeze as soon as the cockpit view comes up.  From a clean x plane install, no plugins, Vulkan works as expected.  After installing the latest X-Aviation and realsimgear drivers for my G5s is when the lockup started happening again.  See log attached, gizmo seems to be the last thing that reported before it freezes.  If I remove the gizmo plugin, X plane works just fine (other than my G5 based planes).  Also, if I go back to openGL, then gizmo doesn't give me any problems.  Changing to vulkan does change the timing of how planes load, so maybe I have some kind of race condition going on.  Any ideas what it may be?  Thank you!

 

Log.txt

Edited March 18, 2022 by Near76
Newer Log.txt file

[Ben Russell]

This is probably an OpenGL + AMD GPU Driver issue.

Do you have any other aircraft with custom-drawn avionics that are working?

[Near76]

When the gizmo plug-in is enabled with Vulkan, none of the planes load…standard X plane or custom.  If I remove gizmo, all load properly again.  Is there something else I can try to diagnose?

Edited March 19, 2022 by Near76

[Ben Russell]

Without gizmo installed, do you have other third party aircraft with custom avionics that load and draw correctly? If yes, name them. 

AMD drivers and vulkan cause a wide variety of problems and errors. You are the first that I have seen to report a complete lockup.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Ben Russell

[Near76]

Yes, the AeroSphere Cherokee C and JustFlight Archer III (the only two I have) both work with Vulkan…when I remove realsim and gizmo plug-ins.

[Ben Russell]

44 minutes ago, Near76 said:

Yes, the AeroSphere Cherokee C and JustFlight Archer III (the only two I have) both work with Vulkan…when I remove realsim and gizmo plug-ins.

Thanks.

Here's the thing... X-Plane provides an "OpenGL bridge" to plugins when it's in Vulkan mode. Gizmo and other plugins don't actually do anything different.

X-Plane and the GPU driver and doing all the magic behind the scenes to make it work "seamlessly" and provide backward compatibility.

Unfortunately in some cases bugs and glitches do happen.

 

I had a look at the products you listed and the JustFlight Archer seems to be the more "GL complicated" of the two...

Have you verified that these screens work in Vulkan mode?

The plane might load but actually opening these displays and interacting with them is another level of code complexity.

They'll be using much of the same "OpenGL bridge" code... not identical, but it helps us narrow things down.

 

Thanks for your help investigating this.

 

I can't offer you any steps to resolve this yet.

Gizmo is going to see an update "fairly soon" that has some major internal changes to how things work, the order of ops, etc.

There's probably some font-generation code running at the point where Gizmo is locking up for you.

I'll review the code and add some additional debug output for those events but I can't give you any sort of release date at this point in time.

 

Sorry I can't resolve your problem at this time.

 

[Near76]

I tried what you recommend above...and the plot thickens  

I could not get the JF Archer to open, even with no plugins...I know it has opened before, but I am second guessing myself now.  So here is what I did (all with vulkan on) to try to get us some more data...trying to move from simple to more complex model loading:

No plugins loaded (see log file): loaded Skyhawk successfully, loaded Aerosphere Cherokee successfully, crashed loading JF Archer

Gizmo only plugin loaded (see log file): could not get Skyhawk to load

Any ideas?

Log - gizmo only.txt Log - no plugins.txt

[Ben Russell]

Your "no plugins" Log shows me that the Aerosphere Cherokee does not use any plugins, therefore it's not using the OpenGL bridge.

You then state that the JF Archer crashes. It's using SASL and features some custom drawing which hits the OpenGL bridge.

This reinforces my opinion that it's the AMD graphics drivers at fault.

 

Your options are basically: "Don't use Vulkan" or ... "try older drivers..."

 

I don't have any AMD hardware and because it's so widely glitchy I haven't been tracking which, if any, AMD driver versions are useful.

This has been reported to AMD by Laminar but AMD don't seem to care.

OpenGL bridge mode is a pretty niche requirement and it would be affecting a very small % of AMD customers. 

These problems _might_ go away with X-Plane 12 as it has more thoroughly re-worked graphics engine.

 

[Near76]

Appreciate the explanation and agree.  The one scenario that I can’t figure out why it doesn’t work is AeroSphere with the gizmo plug-in, which I assume doesn’t use the bridge…with Vulcan on it still locks up.  Hmmm…

[Near76]

6 hours ago, Ben Russell said:

Your "no plugins" Log shows me that the Aerosphere Cherokee does not use any plugins, therefore it's not using the OpenGL bridge.

You then state that the JF Archer crashes. It's using SASL and features some custom drawing which hits the OpenGL bridge.

This reinforces my opinion that it's the AMD graphics drivers at fault.

 

Your options are basically: "Don't use Vulkan" or ... "try older drivers..."

 

I don't have any AMD hardware and because it's so widely glitchy I haven't been tracking which, if any, AMD driver versions are useful.

This has been reported to AMD by Laminar but AMD don't seem to care.

OpenGL bridge mode is a pretty niche requirement and it would be affecting a very small % of AMD customers. 

These problems _might_ go away with X-Plane 12 as it has more thoroughly re-worked graphics engine.

 

I’m somewhere in between gizmo, X plane and AMD.  On the other forum discussing the issue as a potential AMD driver problem, no one seems to see theirs fail in the manner I do…see post:

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/263591-x-plane-11-locking-up-on-preparing-world/
 

The AeroSphere plane as you mentioned doesn’t use the ridge, but still won’t load with gizmo installed.  It will load using Vulkan without.  Any other thoughts on how to get closer to the root of the problem?

[Ben Russell]

Gizmo loads as a global plugin before any aircraft.

This is why you're seeing it affect the AeroSphere product.

 

The problem is the AMD drivers.

If it was Gizmo only the SASL powered JF Archer product would work. It does not.

If it was X-Plane none of the products would work in Vulkan mode.

 

As I have stated multiple times, AMD GPU's are known to cause various issues with Vulkan mode.

 

I cannot offer you any further assistance with this until either AMD fixes the issues we've been seeing OR X-Plane 12 comes out at which point we will be reviewing how AMD owners are affected.

 

Good luck.