Warbird Add-On

[Pete_SMS]

Hi,

I would like to ask you which warbird you would like to see as a high quality and realistic X-Plane add-on.

When I mean high quality and realistic, I am not only talking about a great 3D model. I am additionally talking about a great flight model, which is very close to the real flight manual with respect to handling and performance. And I am also talking about a realistic and accurate systems simulation, so that the sim pilot has to operate the aircraft just like the real deal and finally the sound experience, using custom sounds recorded from the real aircraft.

If a developer would ask you, what would be your answer? 

[eaglewing7]

To be honest, when Heinz's P-51 and Spitfire were released, they were great.  But, they haven't been updated for a few versions (the most current version for both is Version 9.30+), and they are showing there age...

I would love to see a developer like Nils D. come in and model both of those aircraft to the same quality as his Hurricane, which is also getting to the point of needing an update to be fully compatible with 9.60+.

[Pete_SMS]

Yes, Nils Hurricane is the best Warbird for X-Plane so far, but it is lacking systems depth as well. Still the best, though, from my point of view.

I could imagine that there will be a full blown warbird add-on available for XP10 

[eaglewing7]

Just wondering what you mean by "lacking system depth"?

As far as I am concerned there isn't exactly a whole heck of a lot of systems within the Hurricane, it was a relatively simple fighter from that period.

And at that, the Hurricane that Nils made was exemplary, and still is, even though it still does not use all of the latest eye candy like his updated BK-117 does...

[Pete_SMS]

You are right, the Hurri is a simple fighter and Nils did an awesome job, no doubt. I have it and I love it. The best Warbird available for XP.

However, when I talk about systems depth and about warbirds I mainly talk about the engine simulation. Also here the Hurri is not bad, but I am talking about the engine and its systems being strongly dependent on outside air conditions (temperature, density etc.), the aircraft geometry itself and pilot operation. Problems with oil temp or CHT temperatures, if the pilot does not keep the engine within limits and cool. Realistic engine start-up with a cranking engine which fires not necessarily immediately, depending on outside conditions and pilot operation. You will have wear on the engine and its parts and finally that all systems "communicate" with each other, just like in the real deal. A realistic hydraulic, fuel and electrical system. You get the picture.

Again, Nils did a fantastic job, but I haven't seen what I wrote above in depth on any XP warbird.

Also authentic and realistic sound is very important. It is a huge player when it comes to immersion and the feeling of being in the aircraft. Sounds should be recorded from the real aicraft when possible and not just the engine sounds. XP has its limitations when it comes to sound, but this can be solved or at least improved by using OpenAL and Nils is doing that now for his BK-117. Also the BK-117 seems to have a lot of system depths, but I can not talk about it since I am no helicopter pilot, really.

I just saw the videos of the BK-117 and they look awesome, especially with the new sound engine.

[Lukasz]

Definitely Spitfire. But instead of creating versions with bombs, without bombs, with fuel tank, without tank... you get the picture, it would be much more interesting to recreate different production series, for example the most well known ones, Mk.I, Mk.V, Mk.X, to see how the plane evolved and feel the difference.

[Pete_SMS]

I understand and know what you mean, but would you expect to have all these versions as a one package product or split into multiple. Doing different versions in the detail I described above is a huge effort, and also the developer needs access to all versions of the real aicraft, in order do it right. That could be a hard thing. Making it OK, without having access to the aircraft and fake a few things to just make it look and feel right, might not be suitable for the hardcore fans. However, it also depends on how big this hardcore interest group would be.

[clavel9]

Arguably there would be more of a market for Spitfire variants than almost any other aircraft I can think of, but as previously mentioned the amount of work to produce each variant would be immense.

Tackling a later Griffon-powered Spitfire (e.g.: Mk. XII, Mk. XIV, Mk. 24) or a Seafire would be a good place to start though.

[MaidenFan]

P-51

[Pete_SMS]

The Spitfire would be definetly an interesting aircraft to work on.

I am wondering why there is almost no interest in the Bf(Me)-109. It is the most produced WW2 fighter and also very famous and a highlight on airshows. Also the sound of the DB605 engine is just awesome and it is a tricky and demanding aircraft to fly, or actually during take-off and landing. So it's very "interesting" to see that it got almost no votes so far.

[clavel9]

I am wondering why there is almost no interest in the Bf(Me)-109.

I'm pretty sure there's a fairly advanced 109 in development, or at least has been for some time. But, like the Spitfire, and indeed the Fw 190, there are huge numbers of variants to choose from.

[Gjalp]

I voted for the Me 109 "G" but would be just as happy to get a Bf 109 E4 Tropical variant.

Still, whatever is chosen will be fine with me....but do we really need another P-51? what about a '51 B or C variant....very few are modeled in flight sims....I think FSX has one but thats about it as far as I know.

Slainte,

Andy

NZCH

[Simmo W]

The Spitfire would be definetly an interesting aircraft to work on.

I am wondering why there is almost no interest in the Bf(Me)-109. It is the most produced WW2 fighter and also very famous and a highlight on airshows. Also the sound of the DB605 engine is just awesome and it is a tricky and demanding aircraft to fly, or actually during take-off and landing. So it's very "interesting" to see that it got almost no votes so far.

Know what u mean. I've just bought Wings of Prey, and the 109 was the last fighter I tried after all the other planes - despite its performance, it just seems boring- being ruthlessly efficient and clinical.  I'd sell my soul for a dirty Stuka and my mum's soul for one with those huge cannons! Now that has character, real presence

[Lukasz]

I understand and know what you mean, but would you expect to have all these versions as a one package product or split into multiple. Doing different versions in the detail I described above is a huge effort, and also the developer needs access to all versions of the real aicraft, in order do it right.

Not necessarily. It's still one and the same plane, only tweaked and modified more or less. Bigger engine, more weight, some cosmetic details in cockpit. Even gauges were the same for the most of the time. Once you have the first one, making the next would be not much different from releasing a patch. Playing with flight model could be more tricky and time consuming, to portray the differences right, but it would be still easier, than starting from scratch. Spitfire like that would be my high priority to do, if only I had more Blender skills.

How it would be released, is up to the said mysterious developer If it was me, I would sell it as three separate planes, but anyone who purchased whichever one of them, would be granted 50% discount on second and third. Basically you could have three planes priced as two and it would be up to you, if you wanted all of them or not.

I voted for the Me 109 "G" but would be just as happy to get a Bf 109 E4 Tropical variant.

Still, whatever is chosen will be fine with me....but do we really need another P-51? what about a '51 B or C variant....very few are modeled in flight sims....I think FSX has one but thats about it as far as I know.

P-51 is my second most liked warbird (number 3 is all of the rest, in case anyone would like to know ) however I would vote for Mk.III used by RAF, especially the variant used to hunt for V-1 "Doodlebug" cruise missiles. Equipped with Malcolm Hood, boosted to 25lbs (51inHg if I'm right) and running on highly toxic top secret 150 octane fuel, they were a blast to fly! Still, B or C would be nice also. It is D which is maybe the most iconic Mustang, but most of the dogfights and bomber escorts were performed by Bs and Cs. Many of the aces considered them to be the best wartime Mustangs, mostly because they carried less guns and were lighter, more maneuverable.

[LA]

P-51 is my second most liked warbird (number 3 is all of the rest, in case anyone would like to know )

Put me down for the P51D as my all time favorite in both looks & sound. I got hooked on P-51's when I was 10 years old.........when my grandmother gave me a "see through" plastic model kit of the Mustang. That was about 50 years ago. In the meantime, it didn't hurt that a friend ( now deceased) owned a 1944 P-51D with a Cavilier conversion for a back seat passenger. I was able to go through some loops & rolls, in this aircraft.......as well as just enjoying it. Very noisy when the headsets are off for takeoff. But that was part of the fun.

For me, the Spits come in second.

LA

[Pete_SMS]

I am also interested in the P-51 B&C models. Maybe there will be a complete Mustang package one day or two with the B&C and D

It is also nice to see that the FW 190 A is catching up, but again it is interesting to see, that the Bf-109 G is far behind. Is it because this aircraft seems to have no personality. Of course it is no P-51D, but if you are close to one and hearing that DB 605 engine and also seeing it performing, I am always getting goosebumps.

I would like to develop a Bf-109 G one day, but if there is no to almost no interest, it doesn't really make sense, unfortunately. Maybe because there hasn't been a great Bf-109 so far.

[Pete_SMS]

One day left for the poll, but the trend ist clear. The favorite is the P-51D Mustang and that was what I was expecting.

Also it is good to see that the FW190 A is of interest too. Second place, equal to the Spitfire.

Of course 21 people are not representative for the whole X-Plane community, but I think it can still give a trend, although from a statistics point of view it is very questionable.

So let's wait and see what will be developed for XP10. 

[Lukasz]

I wonder, how many people have voted specifically for D and how many for any Mustang, fot that matter Whatever the case, this result satisfies me.

[Pete_SMS]

Maybe useful for another poll, more Mustang specific. 

Anyway, nothing wrong with two packages, like a Mustang B/C and a D package.

[Lukasz]

And when you have the B/C, there is a very short path to RAF Marks

[Pete_SMS]

That's true. You are really after the Mk.III, aren't you. 

[Lukasz]

Yes, that's my favourite variant of Mustang, because it resembles Spitfire so much Joking aside, there are other reasons, rooted in performance characteristics and history. I have nothing against D however, actually it was my first ever plane model. It was made out of paper and was painted in USAF markings - how this "symbol of hostile western imperialism" made it to my then "peace loving communist homeland" back in the 80's, is beyond me.