Agrajag

Cameron, I don't give a damn how many e-mails you got. NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING excuses YOUR behavior in this thread. You can believe whatever you want to believe about me, but you don't control me. You control you and you're supposed to be the professional here. Your actions in thread bear out what people have said about you for years. "Terrible Customer Support" posts with your name associated with them litter the internet in numbers that dwarf this tiny thread. None of it resonates with you so I'm not at all surprised at how this resolved. This stands as yet another in an endless litany of examples of how not to handle challenging customer service issues. I'm just glad your remaining customers will get an option that finally works the way it should have from the start.

Funny that in the end a real option was finally offered which will certainly make the people that liked my posts, those that clearly stated they agreed with the concern and the countless people we all know agree, but choose not to get involved, happy. Had Ben been the one to respond none of this would have been necessary. A simple response that said "Thanks for the input. We can understand why someone might feel this way and will consider adding an option to turn off notification of the license update" would have ended this discussion in a couple posts. That is the final damming fact of this entire affair. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Wow. I'm either talking with a child or a failed programmer. Not quite sure which yet, but the chip on your shoulder is immense. This topic is about much more than a push notification, and the reason you want the rest to be moot is that you don't have answers for any of the rest. So noted. Again, you don't know anything about me, but constantly want to compare resumes like any insecure child would. I don't care to change your mind at this point. The main issue is over. You don't want me as a customer and I will never spend another dime on anything put out through you. We can both be happy in that. What's my favorite color? Where do I spend my summers? What's my vocational background? You know none of this, but make this claim. That speaks volumes about every position you hold. You hold it simply because you need to believe that you're smarter than everyone else. You'll either grow out of that or likely to end up very lonely. Again, here's what went down. I bought products from you over several years. I never said anything negative at any point. I sent in a few minor tickets. I supported your company when people (and you know it's not a small number) said your company was at the top of the heap for having the worst customer service in the industry. I even sent in a totally standard question about clouds the other day. All fine interactions. So, you have this customer over several years... Never an issue and suddenly you want to believe that I've lost my mind. Good luck with that excuse. The reality is that I posted my concern about your latest endeavor. I got a confused response. I clarified my concerns and made it clear exactly what my concerns were, including asking exactly what happens if I turned off the pop-up. From that point on all I got from you was ATTACK. Anyone can re-read this thread that cares to and that is what they will see. Totally unprofessional. Totally not the work of anyone that gives a damn about their reputation. Unlike many people you likely have been able to bully off, it failed with me and you don't know how to handle that. You can try to justify things any way you want, but those are the facts. In the end, we both can learn a lesson here that we agree on. I don't want to be your customer any longer and you don't want me as one. Win/win.

Fly, Only once have I had to request a new activation and that's over years so that really wasn't a concern. I'm also very glad it works for some/most people. It doesn't work for me and in sharing that concern I had to get raked over the coals with customer service only Hades would approve. I have been in game development for three times longer than Cameron has been doing this. I know all about copy protection and there's good implementations and bad implementations. Thus is the latter and the fact that it's better than before is not good on my view. Eating grass is better than eating dirt but neither is desirable. None of my other products resort to this type of protection and certainly all of them know how to discuss things like normal people. Cameron's responses are entirely unprofessional and simply horrid. At this point it's as much about my disgust on his handling of this as the other. You don't have to share my view and that's fine. I will not attack you for your view. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I now understand your myopia.... You actually believe some of this stuff you say -- like that piracy is minimal for X-Aviation products. If you really believe that, then humanity is wasting its time with you. I'm willing to bet you that more people (and it's likely an exponent) run SkyMaxx Pro illegally than own it. If you don't think that's true then we need to bottle whatever it is you took to get you to that fantastical dream land. You think that, because you get PM's, that you must be the only one and that the fanatics that want to be in your good graces (we can all now see what it's like to not be there) might do so for their own benefit.... You clearly continue to spew things that are patently, easily put down, but not in your mind. Simple point: Ask a customer of yours "Would you prefer to own a product that has no validation or one that has validation?" Your intransigence on this point makes my case for me. Everyone would prefer no validation EXCEPT YOU. Are you denying that? Your position says you are. Why? Because in your view it's better than what it was before. Grass is better to eat that dirt, but that doesn't make either of them something to go make a trumpeted video and press release over as a major win for the eater. A process which is related to validation of a product exists why? To validate the user. You know how I know I'm validated? Because I PAID for your product. I don't need to be told continually that I'm valid. I know I'm valid. Stop insulting me. I don't care what others may or may not do. I am your customer. I care about what you do. Regarding tamper processes, yeah, another smoke and mirrors answer. You're out of your league on this one, but nothing will convince you of it so we'll move on. Regarding why I'm "spending all these keystrokes" it's called principle. I understand that this is a concept you might find challenging, but you screwed up this interaction from the outset and don't like it. I give what I get and that too you seem very put off by. Welcome to the mirror. You keep lying time and again and there's no help for that. Good luck convincing customers that you created a validation of their purchase solely for their benefit. Again, I dare you to ask them the above question and we'll see how that poll goes. You won't dare do it. Uh I own FJS. You seem uninformed about their full product line. I can fill you in if you like, but you'll likely just ignore that as you have virtually every single thing I've said to you. Typical.

And you are horrible at customer service. My position is clear to many here. The notification PROCESS benefits you or are you actually going to lie and say you spent the time and money to create this process purely to benefit the customer? Why does it exist at all? Well, we know why it exists. It exists because of your mistaken belief that it prevents piracy. That's nonsense and data has always proven that to be the case. A simple search shows your products readily available to pirates and free of these annoyances. So tell me again why I should pay you? To be called a whiner? To be called a thief? To be told I make no sense? Again, basic business Cameron. You spent time and money to create this process. Did you create this process solely for the good of the customer, or to protect your assets? It's fine if it's both, but we both know that the primary purpose of this process is for your benefit, not ours. That's hilarious. I own dozens of products that function flawlessly without any such connection. So apparently my rock is the correct one for consumers. I would hate to live under a rock where everyone is perceived to be out to get you. Such a cynical way to go about things. I am not trying to change your mind on anything. I am the customer. I encountered a final line I'm not willing to cross and informed you of that standing, calmly. I even thought it had to be a bug and posted my log file. Within one or two messages you were calling me names. That just cemented my position on this. As noted, I tried the straight approach and was ridiculed for it. Now I'm telling you (and anyone that asks me) that I will not spend another penny with X-Aviation as long as these sorts of processes are in place. I thought as a business owner that you should know that. Perhaps you would prefer to never hear why people leave you as a customer. As a business owner I prefer to know why people support me and why they don't -- no matter how tough it might be and it decades of doing this I have never once called a customer names even if they resorted to all out insults. I posted this hear and one general post on X-Plane.org. That is my prerogative as a disgruntled customer. That comes with owning a business. And no, I don't expect anything from my providers other than a respectful discourse which I did not get here. And it's laughable that you cannot understand how you come off to people. I entirely comprehend the reasoning for the pop-up and it's irrelevant to my concern. If it make cows fart dollar bills I still wouldn't want it. That's the one positive thing stated on this and I will be sure to point that out if anyone brings it up. The way it came off from others was that in two weeks I'd be hit with the username and password prompt of old. And, you know what? Had you actually said that this morning in message #1, we likely wouldn't be in this little debate. You didn't, so we are. Instead of trying to understand ME, the customer, you got your haunches up in one or two posts and turned this into a male measuring contest. You have no one to blame for that but yourself. I've told you my concern. I didn't just vanish and speak badly about you behind your back. I have now decided I'd rather not spend my money on a company that handles itself this way and I am FAR from alone on that count. I am just sorry and surprised that after so many years it had to end like this. Best of luck....

How does this approach benefit you? Well, frankly, my argument is that it doesn't actually benefit you. You just believe it does by stopping piracy of your products (which it doesn't do). If it doesn't benefit you, then by all means don't do it! I'm all for that. As you seem to suggest it doesn't benefit you, then go ahead and stop. Sell the products and move on. It's funny how my products from other vendors don't connect to servers, don't treat their customers like crooks and don't call customers whiners..... If you honestly believe you don't have a reputation in need of work then you're choosing not to see the talk about X-Aviation (try Googling "Customer Service X-Aviation". I've been one of your supporters up to this point. I defy you to find a post from my saying a single negative word about your company until this morning. That should tell you something. When others said the customer service with X-Aviation was the worst I defended you and pointed out that my experience was generally fine and that the products I bought worked. On the TV example, sorry, it's absolutely apropos. You try to invalidate it because you don't want to accept that you goofed here. Comparing a start button to a license screen is, however, ludicrous. A start button is generally there to allow a player to decide when they want to start. Perhaps they're getting comfortable, getting a drink, discussing the previous round of play, etc. The start button is actually serving a beneficial purpose requested BY players. As far as nagging, you absolutely are. I have two options with you. A ) force me to lose immersion and click a POINTLESS license screen that shouts "X-Aviation NOW believes you're not a thief, but only until the next launch of this game." or B ) turn that off and get nagged for a username and password that I have to manually enter every two weeks. GREAT options there. I can see why you put out a video.... I'm amazed I didn't see this covered in the Times. Give me a break.

Cameron, as I've said elsewhere, the options you give are all one-sided and benefit only you. Sorry, but I prefer to deal with companies that don't assume from the get-go that I'm a thief out to get them. Sure, I can turn off this option and then be nagged EVERY TWO WEEKS for the privilege of having bought a product from you. Imagine if you bought a TV and every time you turned it on you had to turn off a license screen that came up each time. You'd be livid. Are you going to actually sit there and suggest to me that this isn't the case? That you'd be perfectly fine with doing that? What other provider nags their customers like this? I own dozens of pieces of flight sim software and the only nagging I get is from X-Aviation.

Cameron, I guess what I'm requesting is one level of even more privacy. Go ahead and phone home and don't tell me about it. This destroys the immersion factor to a large degree for me. I'm sitting in my cold and dark plane ready to flip some switches and I have this silly message about a license that I'm required to make go away every single time I load the game. It reminds me of the 1980s all over again with my having to do something because I didn't steal your product. Trust me, I won't be the last person griping about this annoyance and, for me, I will not consider buying another X-Aviation product as long as this requirement is here. I'm also already looking to replace SkyMaxx Pro as a result of this. Very disappointed.

Well, for my case I turned off that option and the pop-up is gone. Still concerned about what turning that off does other than that and if it means some other potential distraction later. For what it's worth here's my log (it has two odd errors that seem unrelated to SMP): debug: 0.633: Firmware v16.09.27.0342 debug: 0.635: Machine ID: 08c4d7b7d0c5bcfb7954881249ddba11 warng: 0.639: GUI Read Key Protection Applied. debug: 0.646: X-Plugins OBJ8 Loader v15.01.11 debug: 0.834: * gxt.refresh().. debug: 0.839: gxt: AutoLoading.. debug: 0.842: gxt.load: Console debug: 0.845: gxt.load: ToolTray debug: 0.847: gxt.load: HotFix debug: 0.850: gxt.load: Mute debug: 0.852: gxt.load: Preferences debug: 0.855: gxt.load: RebootButton debug: 0.857: gxt.load: GateKeeper debug: 0.860: X-Aviation Licensing: Load license.. debug: 0.864: X-Aviation Licensing: License is valid. debug: 1.180: gxt.load: MAXX_RWC warng: 1.183: gxt.load: ErrorReport: FAILED: ext_info is nil, bad link? debug: 1.185: gxt.load: Shell debug: 1.187: gxt: Completed AutoLoad. debug: 18.556: --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- -- - -- --- debug: 18.561: Firmware v16.09.27.0342 debug: 18.564: Machine ID: 08c4d7b7d0c5bcfb7954881249ddba11 warng: 18.568: GUI Read Key Protection Applied. debug: 18.574: X-Plugins OBJ8 Loader v15.01.11 debug: 18.766: * gxt.refresh().. debug: 19.195: gxt: AutoLoading.. debug: 19.199: gxt.load: Console debug: 19.202: gxt.load: ToolTray debug: 19.205: gxt.load: HotFix debug: 19.208: gxt.load: Mute debug: 19.211: gxt.load: Preferences debug: 19.213: gxt.load: RebootButton debug: 19.216: gxt.load: GateKeeper debug: 19.220: X-Aviation Licensing: Load license.. debug: 19.224: X-Aviation Licensing: License is valid. debug: 19.538: gxt.load: MAXX_RWC warng: 19.541: gxt.load: ErrorReport: FAILED: ext_info is nil, bad link? debug: 19.544: gxt.load: Shell debug: 19.546: gxt: Completed AutoLoad. warng: 57.948: Auto License Update is disabled.

Well, that sounds like it's good news. However, I don't think it terms of "Gizmo" as I didn't buy anything with that name. I bought SkyMaxx Pro and so no preferences screen for it that made mention of this box. I'll look elsewhere as an option to disable it is all I was hoping for. UPDATE: Under Gizmo64/Windows/Preferences I have an option to "Automatic License Update at Sim Start". That sounds less than optimal to me. It's not the same thing as disabling the splash screen. It reads as if it disables a feature. If I turn this off, what's the impact? Will I need to manually update my license? If so, how often?

I just tried re-installing 4.5 with no luck. The message shows up every load and pops back up when I shutdown.

What Update button??? I get a pop-up in the upper right that says: X-Aviation License Your license has been updated. ========================= That's it. No buttons to push. Just the box that I have to clear every time I load the game.

Thanks Cameron. Much appreciated. I was sure I goofed somehow.

SMP current. Wondering what these wispy straight-edge ghost-like lines are just beyond the edges of the clouds. Is this normal? Can I kill them off?