When do I use the rudder?!

[rcampos]

I realize how basic this is. But the doubt is still here.

 

So I've been working my way into x-plane 10 for the past week. I'm using the XPPL tutorials to learn from scratch, and my setup is just a joystick with twist - the madcatz cyborg v.1.

 

I've removed all augmented stability, set all axis to 100% non-linear, and a nullzone of 12%, and set yaw to twist axis (how am I doing, does this make sense?!)

 

And I'm trying to get the ropes of basic straight-and-level. Besides the ups and downs which are becoming easier to handle, the 172 banks left or right as it pleases (mostly left, though), and what I've been doing is bank the plane on the opposite direction until it's evened out, but by the time I get it right the heading is way off. 

 

Then I tried experimenting with twisting for rudder when the 172 decides banking is in order, but the only result I get is skidding, per the ball, and the plane banks left and right as a pendulum for a very short moment, and then the heading is gone again.

 

So I must be doing something terribly wrong. Any suggestions highly appreciated!

[eaglewing7]

Not exactly.  What your running into is a limitation of all desktop simulators, the lack of physical feel and feedback...

 

When you fly a real airplane, you can feel the subtle movements of the aircraft, and any outside influences that will cause the aircraft to pitch, roll, or yaw.  When you feel the aircraft being disturbed from equilibrium, you correct as necessary.

 

What ends up happening is that you are constantly making subtle adjustments during cruise, or straight and level flight, along with all phases of flight.  

 

In a simulator, you need to make the same adjustments, but, you cannot feel the upsets, so you generally end up with more reactionary responses, instead of more proactive responses.

[Nicola_M]

Nullzone of 12%?

That's quite a large area of deadness, in which the plane has control of itself.

[eaglewing7]

Depending on the sensitivity of the joystick, you may need up to around 10% null zone, to avoid overly twitchy reactions.

 

When I first started back in X-Plane 8.40, I had a Logitech joystick, and needed 10% null zone so I could actually fly with my hand on the stick, without having wild pitch and roll deviations.

[rcampos]

I had a Logitech joystick, and needed 10% null zone so I could actually fly with my hand on the stick, without having wild pitch and roll deviations.

 

This is what I was experiencing - If I breathed too hard, the plane went crazy.

[Nicola_M]

In 2009 I had a Saitek Cyborg, and didn't need any nullzone.  The setup I use today has zero nullzone. That's why I queried it, as it seemed odd and I thought would explain your plane banking as it pleases.

[eaglewing7]

It all depends on the individual product.  I currently have a Saitek Pro Flight Yoke, and X52, both are quite good, but it never hurts to have a little null zone, especially for the stick, the yoke does not really need any.

[LA]

X-Plane does have a problem with stability. It tends to roll left, when it shouldn't. You shouldn't constantly have to make fine adjustments of pitch, roll, and yaw. When an airplane, especially one such as a 172 is trimmed............. it should be quite easy to remain somewhat on course and altitude, without trying too hard. We're not hovering helicopters here. I say somewhat on course & altitude, because in real life, you'll will slowly drift drift away, without some minor corrections.  But.....it's not "constant" corrections. Non-pilots have flown my airplane (which is much more sensitive that a 172) for hours at a time. You can feel the airflow across the flight surfaces, which keeps you somewhat stable in the middle. It should NOT be trying to always roll off the side. For the real Cessna 172, use right rudder for the takeoff roll and initial climb. Once off the ground, the roll forces, when controlled by rudder, should dissapate.

 

It's a known problem, that X-Plane has troubles with "torque". Torque is present, but is overridden by the more  powerful forces of lift, and slipstream....for real life. In the meantime, this "torque" problem is up for some attention.

[rcampos]

In 2009 I had a Saitek Cyborg, and didn't need any nullzone.  The setup I use today has zero nullzone. That's why I queried it, as it seemed odd and I thought would explain your plane banking as it pleases.

 

Thanks for the observation. I'll try lowering mine incrementally and see how it goes. Maybe it's set too high even for my joystick.

 

 

X-Plane does have a problem with stability. It tends to roll left, when it shouldn't. You shouldn't constantly have to make fine adjustments of pitch, roll, and yaw. When an airplane, especially one such as a 172 is trimmed............. it should be quite easy to remain somewhat on course and altitude, without trying too hard. We're not hovering helicopters here. I say somewhat on course & altitude, because in real life, you'll will slowly drift drift away, without some minor corrections.  But.....it's not "constant" corrections. Non-pilots have flown my airplane (which is much more sensitive that a 172) for hours at a time. You can feel the airflow across the flight surfaces, which keeps you somewhat stable in the middle. It should NOT be trying to always roll off the side. For the real Cessna 172, use right rudder for the takeoff roll and initial climb. Once off the ground, the roll forces, when controlled by rudder, should dissapate.

 

It's a known problem, that X-Plane has troubles with "torque". Torque is present, but is overridden by the more  powerful forces of lift, and slipstream....for real life. In the meantime, this "torque" problem is up for some attention.

 

That explains a lot - thanks for that.