Thywillbedone Posted January 5, 2013 Report Posted January 5, 2013 Hi all. I am a novice teaching myself the CRj200. I have figured most of it out but I cannot work out how to enter the correct flightplan to make an ILS approach to a particular runway. For example, I find myself looking through various STARs to see which might lead (with a particular TRANS) to a good line up to capture an ILS. If I look at approach plates on (for example, airportnavfinderdotcom) they do not match up with any of the STARs listed in the CRJ FMS. I have just updated the FMS from navigraph so its not an issue with that. Further, I am not able to scroll in to the map in enough detail prior to takeoff to see whether a selected route brings me onto the correct ILS approach. Often selecting various STARs seems to add many miles to the journey (sometimes doubling it). So I suppose the question is...for the CRJ with updated FMS, where do find your approach plates to match the FMS and from there how do you go about selecting STARs/TRANS etc to make sure you get properly lined up 10 miles out for good ILS capture on your preferred runway? As an example I fly to Nice last night from Milan and ended up approaching the runway 90 degrees off. My second question is in capturing the ILS. It seems to be tricky to capture this smoothly when changing from NAV FMS to NAV1...the loc is easy to capture but sometimes things get very bumpy when capturing the g/s? In the real world this seems to be very smooth. Is there a trick to this? Final question, why does the default x-plane 10 miles out approach always start at an altitude below which I can capture the glidesope? Ie I have to climb if I want to capture it or fly level for a few miles? Is there a way of re-setting this to, say, 3,500ft so that when I select the 10 miles out option I am higher than the default (which is about 2,500ft)? Thanks in advance!! Quote
Mike Hotel Posted January 5, 2013 Report Posted January 5, 2013 Hi, just a few quick answers: > STARs, e. g. airportnavfinderdotcom It always depends on the AIRAC that they are running. Maybe those sites work with old data. > map scrolling Have a look at page 17 of CRJ200_Tutorial_1.1.0.pdf > choosing the right STAR Find the transition which is right for you, look at those available STARs for the runway in use, pick the according STAR. Distance can go up considerably when winds are not favorable for you. Thats life... But with the "virtual" CRJ2 (slow and light) you might be able to land with tailwinds on longer runways if time is the matter. > FMS to NAV capturing the ILS Go to heading mode prior to switching or fly by hand > G/S capture Capturing the glide slope being lower is the easiest and automated way, otherwise you have to chase it by hand or further manual input. Again, a few short answers - there is more to tell about each question/answer... Cheers,Mike Quote
cessna729 Posted January 5, 2013 Report Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Final question, why does the default x-plane 10 miles out approach always start at an altitude below which I can capture the glidesope? Ie I have to climb if I want to capture it or fly level for a few miles?Hi Thywillbedone, Hope you enjoy learning about the CRJ-200 it's one of the most realistic and complex aircraft you can find in X-Plane. Read the excellent answers what Mike Hotel wrote, but given what you asked, I strongly suggest you may benefit from a quick introduction to basic Instrument flying before moving on to the ILS/SIDS/STARS. There are lots of good articles/books on the subject, here are a few links:X-IFR IntroductionX-IFR 06 - The ILSX-IFR 08 - Planning and EnrouteX-IFR 10 Chart & Plate InterpretationFAA Instrument Procedures HandbookOnce you've done that, and can answer your own final question, if you stiil have problems/questions about the CRJ or specific problem approaches/procedures feel free to ask away some more! As regards your question about NICE (LFMN), I just had a look on Eurocontrol AIS-online (real World site), followed the links to France, then went to the AIP (Aeronautical Information Publications). Next picked the relevant sections:ARR/DEPIACVAC AerodromesIn a simple example, if I was flying from LFKC to LFMN, I would look in the ARR document for KFMN, and see that I would mostlikely arrive from the South-East, so find this chart: Then If I knew what direction the wind was blowing or what the active runway was (or ATC or your oneline sim virtual ATC was using), I 'd get out the relevant approach chart eg ILS04R: (Should be VOR A RWY 04L if Vis/CBase 10km/3000ft or ILS04L in IMC). Note: In the "sim world" you will be using Navigraph or NavDataPro (Aerosoft) data, which is great and does not cost much" but does not included every procedure that exists in RW (the Real World), and will not usually include "Circling Approaches", so alot of airports will have procedures that will not appear in the sim! So in my example I selected the following in the CRJ's FMS ARR/DEP page:DEP, LFKC, Rwy 36, SID MERL5C,ARR, LFMN, STAR MERL6C, (no STAR Trans req), APPR ILS04R, APPR TRANS NERASThen EXEC, and used the FORMAT and RANGE knobs to select the PLN map, and went to the LEGS page and used the up and down arrows on the CDU to check the PLN. So you can see on SkyVector, you can end up by flying not in a straight line between two airports if you opt to fly the full procedure.cessna729. Edit: Prefered Landing Rwy is 04L (90% of the time). Edited January 5, 2013 by cessna729 Quote
Thywillbedone Posted January 5, 2013 Author Report Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the replies. Very helpful. I have much more to learn!! But a quick question...the FMS on the route to LFMN offers me a TRANS called "MUS" (following approach of ILSo4R) along with "NERAS" and "NERA1"...I cannot find transitions "MUS" or "NERA1" on the the map you helpfully pointed me to? Ignore the above question...just found the answer. Thanks! Edited January 5, 2013 by Thywillbedone Quote
cessna729 Posted January 5, 2013 Report Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the replies. Very helpful. I have much more to learn!! But a quick question...the FMS on the route to LFMN offers me a TRANS called "MUS" (following approach of ILSo4R) along with "NERAS" and "NERA1"...I cannot find transitions "MUS" or "NERA1" on the the map you helpfully pointed me to?MUS = MUS NICE COTE D'AZUR is a NDB navigation beacon (428kHz, 236deg 18nm from LFMN) The APPR TRANS NERA1 has these waypoints:NERAS, (AZR), DM27A, DM27B, DM27C. DM27C, DM27D, DM27E, @DME27, D222L, CI04R, NC, LFMN The APPR TRANS NERAS has these waypoints:NERAS, (AZR), D160, D185, @DME27, D222L, CI04R, NC, LFMN So, I suspect that both Transitions (TRANS) use the same intial fix NERAS, just that one (NERAS) has been coded for sim aircraft that can correctly fly DME arcs, and the other (NERA1) for sim aircraft that can't. Unfortunately with the current navdata as far as I know (You would have to ask Philipp for the correct answer), the CRJ-200 cannot fly RF paths. But it can simulate DME arcs if it used the NERA1. Also I, made a slight error in my example cos it appears that LFMN uses Rwy 04L not 04R as the prefered runway for landing.04 landings are preferred due to the meteorology, minima and topography; they are used about 90 % of the time. RWY 04L, 2570 meters, is dedicated to landings. Under favourable meteorological conditions (10 km, 3000 ft) the VOR A RWY 04L conventional approach is the preferential approach. The RNAV (GNSS) approach is the overlay of the VOR A procedure. Therefore it is usable on pilots request. These two procedures are followed by VPT A. They enable to avoid the overflight of the East of Cannes, of Vallauris and of Antibes-City. About 2/3 of 04 arrivals use the VOR A or RNAV (GNSS) RWY 04L approaches. During less favourable conditions. ILS 04L is available. The 3 degree slope allows low noise descents over Antibes. The 3 degree 04L and 04R PAPI respectively located right of threshold 04L and 04R, are calibrated for threshold overflight of type B747 planes. Hope that has aswered your questions Edited January 5, 2013 by cessna729 Quote
Thywillbedone Posted January 6, 2013 Author Report Posted January 6, 2013 On a separate note, I am disappointed to find that navigraph (nDac application) does not support Mac (which I use) - I think that means I have to look up the approach plates through the various country agencies per the Eurocontrol website. I tried this last night for the Italian site which requires registration etc etc. Is there not an easier way? Quote
horani Posted January 6, 2013 Report Posted January 6, 2013 You can always run nDac (or any other Win software) in virtual machine on Mac (Fusion, Parallels). That is how I do it: I run XPlane o Mac and have VM open on second monitor, where I can run Win specific software like nDac, FS Commander, Topcat or other. Quote
Mike Hotel Posted January 6, 2013 Report Posted January 6, 2013 Nope, obtaining charts can be a real hassle - the Eurocontrol web site is a nightmare. Better go search for "enroute charts" or "airport chart STAR" before consulting Eurocontrol. http://www.vatita.net/?dir=ajaxcharts&pagina=charts The LIPZ STAR chart is 18 months old, but better than nothing. The UK, Germany and Sweden are way better organized. The US is a dream in that respect. Quote
cessna729 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) On a separate note, I am disappointed to find that navigraph (nDac application) does not support Mac (which I use) - I think that means I have to look up the approach plates through the various country agencies per the Eurocontrol website. I tried this last night for the Italian site which requires registration etc etc. Is there not an easier way?Hi Thywillbedone.It just depends what you want? I have still have nDAC installed on my machine, and used it lots, until I figured out that I was paying good money for the service, but if I was willing to do a little bit of work "digging around", and ok you might have to "register" only once, I could use the "Real world - Upto date" stuff, all "for FREE". Or if I didn't mind using "out-of-date" stuff I could get it from one of the many on-line virtual sim sources. Or If I was feeling lazy, just type the ICAO code and the word "Charts" into Google and there would be loads of Jepperson approach plates ready at the click of a button. Mike hotel is correct though, the USA has it far eayer to get free access to all sorts of approach/enroute charts, just try SkyVector. Unfortunately at the moment due to licencing issues the approach/SID/STAR charts only have links for the USA, you will only get an bare airport link outside the USA. Which airports are you having problems finding charts for?Cos, IMHO, Eurocontrol EAD isn't that bad!You just have to be looking in the correct section! Free of charge access to AIP of EAD PAMS states is available on the European AIS Database public user website - EAD Basic (registration required). cessna729.Edit: Mike wasn't wrong! I't's just I set up my EAD registration, so long ago, I'd forgot! Edited January 6, 2013 by cessna729 Quote
Thywillbedone Posted January 6, 2013 Author Report Posted January 6, 2013 Thanks guys. Its getting a lot easier and I have made a lot of progress understanding things in the last 24 hours thanks to the replies on this board. How much easier it would be if I had a one-on-one tutorial! But that would take the fun out of it!! Re using nDac on windows on my mac...well I have a new iMac arriving next week and plan to keep my existing iMac (27" mid 2010 low spec) as a moving map etc so might use horani's suggestion above. Speaking of the new iMac...anyone run xplane10 on the highest spec 2012 iMac? I might post some results once I have if of interest? I was torn between building a spec Windows machine and buying the new iMac...ultimately I could not face going back to windows. cessna729, thanks. I guess when you google approach plates you get quite a few returns and it is not always obvious what plates are current/correct etc etc. Quote
Mike Hotel Posted January 6, 2013 Report Posted January 6, 2013 Ah, you caught me. I am a simpleton... No logins, no Java stuff, search-able. Thats what I would call organized. E. g., the UK nats sitehttp://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=6&Itemid=13.html Quote
cessna729 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) Ah, you caught me. I am a simpleton...Not at all Mike! Far from it! No logins, no Java stuff, search-able. Thats what I would call organized.You got me there! Yes, you are right, you do have to log-on and to get the advantages, and yes you do need Java enabled. But is is very searchable! and that one site gives "FREE access" to all these countries.And yes, I do use the UK NATS Site alot cessna729. Edited January 6, 2013 by cessna729 Quote
cessna729 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) This old post may be of some interest.If you fly the CRJ-200 in Europe and would like some Enroute charts that you can download and print out, you may be interested in this:EUROCONTROL Regional ChartsThe new EUROCONTROL Regional Charts (ERC) are a combination of the former Airspace Management Planning Charts (ASM) and the Central Flow Management Planning Charts (CFMU). These 12 ERC charts are based on EAD data. Currently, only the Upper airspace is currently available on-line, lower airspace will follow at a later stage.ERC - 01/H Upper Chart (Canary Islands - Morocco)ERC - 02/H Upper Chart (Portugal - Spain)ERC - 03/H Upper Chart (Italy - Malta - Tunisia)ERC - 04/H Upper Chart (Greece - Western Turkey)ERC - 05/H Upper Chart (Eastern Turkey - Azerbaijan)ERC - 06/H Upper Chart (Central Europe - Ukraine)ERC - 07/H Upper Chart (Italy - South/East Europe)ERC - 08/H Upper Chart (France - Switzerland) ERC - 09/H Upper Chart (Benelux - Germany - Poland) ERC - 10/H Upper Chart (United Kingdom - Ireland)ERC - 11/H Upper Chart (South Scandinavia - Baltic States)ERC - 12/H Upper Chart (North Scandinavia - Iceland)Don't forget that SkyVector also offers FREE on-line Enroute mapping.VFR, Lo IFR and Hi Alt IFR.cessna729. Edited January 6, 2013 by cessna729 Quote
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