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No brakes with the latest update 1.5 for the MU


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Just updated the MU to latest update and for some reason when I apply brake button on my joystick it won't release/apply brakes on the aircraft. This is only after the update, the previous ver worked fine.

 

The odd thing is that even though this update is not compatible in 32bit, brakes do work.

 

any suggestions?

 

Carlos

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Carlos, some things didn't work for me when I installed the update because I had 2 sets of Gizmo plugins running @ the same time (the installer puts the latest version of Gizmo on and I had a previous beta install with slightly different folder name already there).

Once I removed the old one from the Resources\plugins folder everything settled right as rain!

This might not be your problem ... but you never know!

Edited by Kris Pryo
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Carlos, some things didn't work for me when I installed the update because I had 2 sets of Gizmo plugins running @ the same time.
Once I removed the old one from the Resources\plugins folder everything settled right as rain!
This might not be your problem ... but you never know!

 

This only applies if you decided to participate in the 64-bit beta for Gizmo a while back.

 

Gizmo 32-bit is still useful for some add-ons and as such should remain in the plug-ins folder. It will not cause interference to your 64-bit products, hence the reason we have named the 64-bit version Gizmo64.plugin

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I agree, there is something wrong with the 'brake' function. Normally if you press the brake it will release the 'parking brake'. This one does not. You have to release it manually and while taxing at brake-neck speeds on the tarmac the parking brake will slow it down but the standard brake or max brake will not. 

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I usually use the keyborard 'v' and 'b' commands and tht works on my end...I'll try assigning it to a joystick button though.......can you verify if the keyboard will activate the brakes though please?

 

See next post.

Edited by tkyler
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I agree, there is something wrong with the 'brake' function. Normally if you press the brake it will release the 'parking brake'. This one does not. You have to release it manually and while taxing at brake-neck speeds on the tarmac the parking brake will slow it down but the standard brake or max brake will not.

 

 

Brakes are a "sticky" subject in x-plane.  The x-plane commands, "brakes_regular" and "brakes_max" actually actuate the 'parking brake' variable in xplane, which happens to be tied into my parking brake lever.  Because in the Moo, the real parking brake is a lever you MUST engage manually, then in this simulation, I have it so that the parking brake lever must be operated manually...therefore the commands, "brakes_regular" and "brakes_max" will not work as they are trying to control a lever that I am forcing you to use manually as in the real Moo.  

 

The trade-off here is that for those who will use joystick buttons, map your brakes to "brakes_toggle_regular" or "brakes_toggle_max".  The concession is you have to hit your button twice to toggle brakes rather than "hold and release" them and doing so will have the parking brake lever popping in and out as these commands also are tied to the parking brake (but work differently than the brakes_max/brakes_regular commands....don' ask why).   I do have a programmatic solution for this but not sure if I'll put it in a patch or save it for V2 but it will get addressed.  Thanks for pointing it out as sometimes "my habits" don't coincide with others and I just don't see stuff sometimes.

 

If you are lucky enough to have a joystick with two free buttons super close together, you can map one button to the "left brake" and one to the "right brake" and hit both buttons at the same time....this does give you the hold brake effect independent of the parking brake.  It just so happens on my cheap Logitech Extreme 3D pro..the two buttons under the hat switch I use for this exact situation where I have to press both with my thumb.

 

You have to release it manually and while taxing at brake-neck speeds

FWIW, taxi speed in a Moo is managed with beta/reverse lever management as taxi speed can get very crazy if you are not in the beta/revserse region.   You might notice that gound idle lever position is way into the beta region where thrust is about 30lbs/engine.  At the flight idle position, thrust is around 280 lbs/engine.  In my real Moo flying, we routinely go in and out of beta/reverse pitch as we taxi...constantly moving the power levers up and down as needed.

 

Tom K

Edited by tkyler
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As an aside...this is one reason for my 3D lever setup with manipulators where you can grab the levers onscreen with the mouse and drag then naturally into the necessary positions as you taxi.  Becuase we constantly pulled the levers up and down, in and out of reverse, I wanted to do the same in sim with one fluid motion.  Because hardware does not work that way though, having no detents per se, using joysticks makes it a bit "less natural" than reality.  So my personal preference is to use the mouse to move the 3D levers while taxing, where I can simply drag the levers into reverse and then switch to the joystick throttle at takeoff.

 

TomK

Edited by tkyler
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The trouble with that is 'all other aircraft' work using brake_reg and brake_max on a joystick double action brake button and the parking brake is a toggle action separate button. It would require reprogramming the joystick when changing to this aircraft and back again for all the others. I know it is easy to do but still how come everybody else 32 bit or 64 bit seem to be able to get around the 'sticky' subject in X-plane?

Just asking

thanks

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I think I see where you are coming from in that if you can toggle it, why can't you "hold it".  is that correct?

 

A MAJOR problem with using default commands that work across across all aircraft is it severly limits one's ability to customize a simulation to be more accurate....the default command set just is not that robust.    "Per aircraft" hardware configuration is the ideal answer and without a doubt, hardware configuration is the toughest becasue its just different for everybody.  The focus now is getting the systems working accurately based on input and THEN I will focus on mapping that input to hardware in a more customizable way....but if there is one thing I do NOT want to be.....and that is like "all other aircraft".   I'll admit I have not put that much into hardware mapping yet as I feel the systems simulation must come first and when I am happy with that, I will focus on the hardware interface.    I am confident there is a programmatic solution to your issue though and I will put it on the todo list.

 

TomK

Edited by tkyler
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I think I see where you are coming from in that if you can toggle it, why can't you "hold it".  is that correct?

 

Yes, at least I think you get what I am trying to say. Brakes work in all other X-Aviation aircraft also. After all it is just BRAKES , it shouldn't be complicated. 'momentary regular' or 'momentary max' for using regular braking action and 'toggle' max on or off for parking brake.

 

I'm confident that you will find a solution for your next upgrade and I hope the having to use reverse to control racing down the tarmac,- really not good.

Thanks

Chaps

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I know but should not be necessary in this case for simple brakes. Thanks though.

 

 

I agree actually and already have a fix programmed :)   There was a gizmo feature I was unfamiliar with that I needed to make this work.  We'll get back with you on this Chaps as we are still sorting out some initial distribution issues and the idea of making "very small" patch updates will need to be discussed with X-aviation and they're a bit busy handling "first time launch" issues....in this case, 64-bit gizmo.

 

TomK

Edited by tkyler
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I agree actually and already have a fix programmed :)   There was a gizmo feature I was unfamiliar with that I needed to make this work.  We'll get back with you on this Chaps as we are still sorting out some initial distribution issues and the idea of making "very small" patch updates will need to be discussed with X-aviation and they're a bit busy handling "first time launch" issues....in this case, 64-bit gizmo.

 

TomK

I knew you would  :)

Thanks

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Chaps.

 

Good call...the whole reason for switching to gizmo was super quick development on multi-platform.  The new brake system is in...works great and intuitive and XA and I will be talking patch strategies.  Gizmo allows for such fast alterations that we did not see in the past, we want to talk about update methods....depending on the size and nature of the patches.  

 

here's how the brakes will work.  You MUST use the mouse to toggle the handbrake lever on an off and if the parking brake is on, then the brake keystrokes or "max/regular_brakes" clearly won't work.  With the parking brake off though, you can either toggle the brakes with the 'c' or 'v' keys or "hold" the brakes by using the "brakes_max" or "brakes_regular" commands mapped to the key/joystick button of your choice.

 

TomK

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Ah, is this now using the 'override command' part of the X-Plane SDK

 

 

Not quite.  I do not override or reassign any commands here, just manage them.   A deft programming framework for managing the "annoyances and subtlties of x-plane" is a more accurate description of what I do.   "Simple" and straightforward solutions rarely exist on complex aircraft (twin turbines and "up") and you really have to program several aircraft simulations before you realize just how limited x-plane usually is.  After a while, you say, "screw it", I'm customizing everything and that's where I am...I don't like using any default datarefs for user interaction.  I can't wait for per aircraft command configurations to be integral to x-plane...this will go a long way towards making more customized aircraft flow naturally with the x-plane experience.

 

TomK

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  • 5 months later...

Hi all,

 

I've just got the MU-2 and encountered the brake command bug described here. I see you are smoothing the changes to the brake ratio dataref, which is really good. But it's possible (by loading the aircraft and pressing B and V a few times) for the brake ratio to go to 0.75 or 0.25, at which point it is noticeable that pressing B adds or subtracts 0.5 to the dataref, when it normally sets the dataref to either 0.5 or 0. By alternately pressing B and V the brake ratio exponentially decays to 0. I only realised this after driving off the runway a few times. Watching it with the gear/brake data display turned on, it smells like a maths/logic error.

 

I see your point about forcing the user to use the 3d manipulator - but I don't agree, I don't want to use the mouse to operate a common control when there is a perfectly good key right there. When I apply the parking brake on my car it's an automatic action to reach the handle and operate it, I don't need to turn my head to it, reach for the mouse, and guide a cursor onto it. If you really want to impose this limitation as a deliberate design point, which is a completely valid decision, I think you should override the default commands with a no-op callback function. Please give us either 0% or 100% keyboard brake control, instead of 75% :)

 

edit: Turns out this forum requires javascript to understand what a line break is!

Edited by Tasmanian
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