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I was having such luck starting this plane


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I don't know if it is 11.50R1 that is causing this.

I am having a devil of a time starting this plane.   Never really had trouble except at first when I was first learning it.   Now,  it absolutely won't start.   I've been struggling almost an hour, rebooting, reloading,  menu->RESET, menu->PRIME, coldstart, hotstart, floodstart, repeat.   I finally got it started and it died on the way to the runway.   I had it leaned for taxi and was trying to keep the rpms over 1000 but sometimes you accidentally pull back and it dies.   This is really frustrating.

I don't know why (since XP11.50R1 I think) I am suddenly not able to get this thing started.

Ideas?

thanks

-mark

 

Edited by snomhf
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For a fast and safe start when using the checklist, do not use the "prime" function with the fuel pump switch in the aircraft, but use instead only the "Prime" sub-menu of the X-Plane plugins menu.
So:
- Fuel pump: OFF
- Mixture: Full Rich
- Throttle: full forward
- Fuel pump: Prime only with the plugin menu, just once (do not use the Prime switch on the pedestral). It's not realistic to go through the plugin menu, but it works every time.
- Fuel pump: boost
- Trottle: 1/4" (no more)
- Start the engine...

By proceeding in this way, the engine starts quickly.

Edited by Goofy
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Thanks Jean-Pierre,

I did notice I had more luck using the menu-prime.   One difference is I had the Fuel Pump on Boost rather than Off as you say.   I'll try that.

I still don't understand why I have suddenly started having so much trouble.  It's really silly that this plane is this hard to start!  I really love it once I finally get it started but since it is so much trouble,  I usually talk mysyelf out of flying it.  It's a shame really.

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5 hours ago, Goofy said:

For a fast and safe start when using the checklist, do not use the "prime" function with the fuel pump switch in the aircraft, but use instead only the "Prime" sub-menu of the X-Plane plugins menu.
So:
- Fuel pump: OFF
- Mixture: Full Rich
- Throttle: full forward
- Fuel pump: Prime only with the plugin menu, just once (do not use the Prime switch on the pedestral). It's not realistic to go through the plugin menu, but it works every time.
- Fuel pump: boost
- Trottle: 1/4" (no more)
- Start the engine...

By proceeding in this way, the engine starts quickly.

In my procédure, the fuel pump is on "boost" position before start the engine.

If you have a big problem to start the engine, you can execute the "reset" command in the X-Plane plugins menu (where there is the "prime" function). This makes a total reset of all the engine parameters (to be done only on the ground).

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7 hours ago, Goofy said:

- Fuel pump: OFF
- Mixture: Full Rich
- Throttle: full forward
- Fuel pump: Prime only with the plugin menu, just once (do not use the Prime switch on the pedestral). It's not realistic to go through the plugin menu, but it works every time.
- Fuel pump: boost
- Trottle: 1/4" (no more)
- Start the engine...

Sorry Goofy,  I didn't make myself clear earlier.   I was leaving the Fuel Pump on BOOST before using the plugin menu->PRIME and that was the problem.  I am now setting that to OFF before I prime and that seems to be working better.

Because this process is so ridiculous, I am working on a Lua script to start the plane.   It first RESETs the plane and follows your process.   I really hate to do this but I am so disgusted with struggling with this that I'm hoping this will make me want to fly this airplane.

Thanks again for your help!

-mark

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I think there is a real need to address to the TorqueSim team: 
- easier engine starting
- a castor option in the window option for the front landing gear (for those who don't have rudder pedals with toe brakes, it's a real nightmare... and even for those who have rudder pedals with toe brakes below 15-20 kts)

Edited by Goofy
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Is 11.50R1 the most recent version of X-Plane -- the one released just 2 or 3 days ago? I ask, because I installed the most recent X-Plane release, and I'm able to start the SR22 without difficulty, using the steps that are listed in the POH for a real SR22:

  1. Battery Master Switches - Both On
  2. Mixture - Full Rich
  3. Throttle - Full Forward
  4. Fuel Pump - Prime and then Boost
  5. Throttle - Back to 1/4 inch Open
  6. Ignition - Start
  7. Throttle - Back to 1000 RPM
  8. Mixture - Lean (to the X in Mixture)

I haven't tried this yet on the SR22T, nor have I tried a hot start.

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Lon,

Yes, R1 is the most recent beta.   It should have been named RC1 but I guess in their haste to get in and out before the Giant arrived, they didn't have time for the 'c'.

I don't know what's going on.   Once I learned to start this thing back when it first came out, I had no trouble starting it either.   It's only been in the last couple of days that I have had major trouble.  In fact, after all the interaction with Goofy on this,  just this afternoon I got so frustrated that I finally just gave up.   I thought menu->RESET should reset the plane to as if it has never been used but after meticulously following the procedure, it just cranked and cranked and cranked!   I am major frustrated over this!

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I have noticed people having random issues with the weather changes, myself included. Something to consider. 

1) Send log.txt after next flight load and engine fail.
2) If engine does not start go into the Continental IO-550 menu and log the engine issue. That way you can send us the log produced in Output/SR22
3) DO you follow checklists 100%. If you are flooding the engine you will have problems. If you are not leaning before taxi you will have issues and If you are on the ground and you dont supply enough power through taxi phases you will lose the engine. I did quite a bit of reading on this and it is pretty common with fouled spark plugs or ignition issues. I would charge the battery and replace plugs. I have also flown 40 hours in the last two weeks trying to replicate this. The only ways I could replicate it was by not properly operating the engine & fuel system. Pilot induced. 
4) When you start are you aware of the starting conditions and are you starting according to those conditions? Cold start, hot start, etc. Environmental factors? Hot, cold, etc?

If 1 & 2 do not produce any results on our end once you send those it is most likely 3 & 4.

Our engine code is independent of X plane and should not be effected by new betas or builds. 

Hope we can get you up and running!

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Try moving the throttle back a bit -- i.e., give the engine less fuel -- before and even while you are cranking. I know that's counter-intuitive, but the plane doesn't start if the throttle is too far forward, and "too far" includes what appears to be just cracked open.

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44 minutes ago, Attitude said:

Ok I am shooting you a video now. Standby. ;)

 

I'm standing by, but the new video doesn't seem to have been posted. Or were you sending the video to someone else, directly rather than by posting it?

Edited by Lon
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On 8/19/2020 at 4:14 PM, Lon said:
  1. Battery Master Switches - Both On
  2. Mixture - Full Rich
  3. Throttle - Full Forward  On the 'R'
  4. Fuel Pump - Prime and then Boost
  5. Throttle - Back to 1/4 inch Open On the 'R'
  6. Ignition - Start
  7. Throttle - Back to 1000 RPM
  8. Mixture - Lean (to the X in Mixture)

Ok, Ok, Ok!   I got this!  Stand back!!

The truth is halfway between Lon and Attitude.  I tried using the checklist Lon posted (from the real SR22 btw!) and took his advice to drop my throttle back a little from where I was setting it.   It cranked 10-15 seconds and STARTED!!

Then I followed Attitude's advice, replacing step 3 with on "On the 'R'" and it started up IMMEDIATELY!   I tried it several more times just to make sure I didn't just get lucky and it worked EVERY time!

So, the checklist as I have edited it above is the GOSPEL ACCORDING TO TORQUESIM!  Forget the REAL checklist!

I'm a happy camper.

Don't change a thing else you draw back a nub!!

Thanks fellas!!

-mark

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On 8/19/2020 at 3:50 AM, snomhf said:

I don't know if it is 11.50R1 that is causing this.

I am having a devil of a time starting this plane.   Never really had trouble except at first when I was first learning it.   Now,  it absolutely won't start.   I've been struggling almost an hour, rebooting, reloading,  menu->RESET, menu->PRIME, coldstart, hotstart, floodstart, repeat.   I finally got it started and it died on the way to the runway.   I had it leaned for taxi and was trying to keep the rpms over 1000 but sometimes you accidentally pull back and it dies.   This is really frustrating.

I don't know why (since XP11.50R1 I think) I am suddenly not able to get this thing started.

Ideas?

thanks

-mark

 

I was experiencing similar issues, and the following easy fix solved everything: Follow the standard start up procedure, mixture full rich, throttle fully opened, turn on the prime (high) pump for about a second, then switch to the boost pump, pull back throttle to about a quarter open, now turn the starter on. And here is the trick, if the plane doesn't start, make sure you have the ignition cranked up to start, and slowly shift the throttle back or forward. Doing this solved my start up hassles. I'm sure the developers will fix this bug with the next update. 

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10 hours ago, Attitude said:

Check these out. 
https://www.flyhpa.com/2013/04/starting-to-get-frustrated/
https://cirrusaircraft-aunz.info/2016/05/15/hot-starts-every-time/ 

Seems there are multiple schools of thought when you start digging into techniques. For Hot starts I use the latter and it works every time.

Really glad we could get you started up!   

Good articles.   Thanks for your help!

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Fyi, this plane is much harder to start in the sim than in the real world. (I can only speak to the normally aspirated version -- I've never flown a turbocharged SR22.) I really hope that gets improved, because I'm having to start the flight with the engine running in order to actually do anything other than spend 15 minutes trying to start her. Unlike some others, I've had no issues with the engine quitting once it's running -- I've only flown the normally aspirated version, though, if that makes a difference.

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