My 11 planes since April 2008 until the new ones for XPlane10 on new video!!

[X-Plane Australia]

Look at this from my perspective. I think karma is a good idea so people stay positive and constructive. In the end I think thats the reason why were here instead of the org. But on the other hand I do believe people have been "picked on". For example there is someone who is over -50 in karma, I won't say there name but they stay positive and I have never heard them say anything bad. I personally think that everyone at x-pilot should also list other advantages and disadvantages with karma and then we go to a poll to see wether it stays or goes.

I disagree with the people who think for example that if you get to -5 you get a warning. I think it should be up to the moderators.

[dan]

I'm not saying my suggestion is necessarily the best one, and in the end it's the admins decission how to run the site. But when you accumulate such a low negative karma the whole community is annoyed by you. Take for example people who constantly ask for updates, even though the last update was made in the last few days. Or those who don't even bother reading the whole thread asking the same question answered earlier in the thread. The rest of the community will no doubt be annoyed, especially if this is something that is repeated a lot by said individual, and they will punish you by giving you a low karma rating. But some obviously never learn, or take the hint way to late in the game, so a cooling off period might be a good idea to let them think about their actions and what lead them into the situations. How low that number should be before you get a cooling off period can be debated, and the length of the period, but I'll leave that to others to figure out.

All I'm saying, there should be a limit to how low your karma can go before action is taken to avoid "trolls".

[Oliver]

Yea I agree with just about everything said about the Karma, one thing though you might want to make a rant thread about it so we can keep this thread for Javier's video  8)

[Cameron]

First off, this has already been discussed in the rant section in the past: http://forums.x-pilot.com/index.php?topic=968.0

Karma has proven to be a positive tool and way on this forum to assist in the change of behavior. In fact, we have seen a couple of people turn around from it in a major way.

At this time, we only have ONE person so deep in the negatives, and we all know who it is. He's a good, enthusiastic person of the forums who is full of excitement, and it doesn't warrant a ban. As time goes on I do see improvement, and we'll always monitor stuff like this.

Please don't use this karma tool as a bullying mechanism when people disagree. I would like to make a suggestion to the mods to remove this system entirely.

It wasn't. Matthew had a negative rating long before entrance to this thread.

We do NOT allow bullying with this system, and log ALL karma transactions. Any excessive behavior to try and give someone negative karma in a vindictive manner would be caught and dealt with, and we have yet to cross that bridge. This is in part due to the system having measures in places to not allow more than one smite at a time, and the same goes for applauding. It will simply stop you from doing so.

At this time we will not be pulling out the Karma feature. We get many positive comments on it even behind closed doors, and it seems majority of people consider it a "something to work for" type thing. If you don't like or appreciate it, then that's your gig and you can ignore it. It's really as simple as that. Don't misjudge Karma as the sole moderation tool around here...it's not.

This should be the end or nearing the end of this "topic" within this topic. Let's not stray too far away from the original subject, please.

[Kesomir]

The only unfortunate effect of the karma is that you can get voted down by simply holding an unpopular opinion, regardless of how the posts are put across.

I think it's a shame that the karma reflects popularity more than constructive posting, and that people are much more willing to vote karma down than up.

I can't really think of a good way of fixing it without breaking it though, other than capping the receivable karma from a post (maybe alrteady implemented) or making positive karma a higher value than negative.

EDIT: I think switching karma off for the rant forum might be a good idea though. Thats a place to blow off some steam and shouldn't really carry karma reward/penalty IMHO.

[Cameron]

I can't really think of a good way of fixing it without breaking it though, other than capping the receivable karma from a post (maybe alrteady implemented) or making positive karma a higher value than negative.

Yes, this is already in effect.

[MatthewS]

IMO the karma system is not a good idea.  Why?

1) There's no transparency. We should be able to see the log of a person's karma history (who voted a person up/down, and a link to the post where it occurred).  Systems that are not transparent are open to abuse (ie abuse by forum users or forum moderators).

2) It's a form of censorship because be people become too "scared" to say something that might affect their karma negatively. 

Ok my karma is -8 as I post this.... lets see what happens to my karma now! 

[Kaphias]

IMO the karma system is not a good idea.  Why?

1) There's no transparency. We should be able to see the log of a person's karma history (who voted a person up/down, and a link to the post where it occurred).  Systems that are not transparent are open to abuse (ie abuse by forum users or forum moderators).

2) It's a form of censorship because be people become too "scared" to say something that might affect their karma negatively. 

Ok my karma is -8 as I post this.... lets see what happens to my karma now! 

Cameron has already taken the time to explain the system well, and it is hardly open to abuse. I agree with you that it stops some people from posting things, not only bad or stupid things as designed (it's good in that respect), but also their honest opinion, simply because they will be voted down. Some people here aren't mature enough to see the difference between someone putting up a good argument and something they disagree with. The karma system should (and in most cases, seems to be) a representation of the way someone acts, not their opinion. Only exception may well be the rant forum, as kesomir said.

[Cameron]

1) There's no transparency. We should be able to see the log of a person's karma history (who voted a person up/down, and a link to the post where it occurred).

No, you shouldn't. 

Systems that are not transparent are open to abuse (ie abuse by forum users or forum moderators).

The appropriate people who need to see it DO see it; the mods. What you're suggesting is to open this up to further abuse. The only purpose your suggestion would serve is to allow vindictive behavior by means of retaliation. Seriosuly, why else would you need to know what you're asking for?

2) It's a form of censorship because be people become too "scared" to say something that might affect their karma negatively.

It does? You don't seem very scared! Censorship is the wrong word. No one will get banned for speaking their opinion or being honest. It may make someone think their answer/post through a bit more if they care, but that's about it.

Ok my karma is -8 as I post this.... lets see what happens to my karma now!

It went up...probably not what you were hoping for when you tried to prove a point.  

[X-Plane Australia]

Back to the topic 

How many other quality x-aviation designers are helping with V10

[MatthewS]

Ok my karma is -8 as I post this.... lets see what happens to my karma now!

It went up...probably not what you were hoping for when you tried to prove a point.  

Yes and since there's no transparency how do I know you didn't bump it up to -6 just prove your point?  

edit:  But anyway it hardly matters, this is a forum and it's not like the forum police are going to come to my house and have me arrested for bad karma.

[X-Plane Australia]

I know why. Because I gave you +1, please Matthew the karma system is staying and lets just leave it at that.

[Cameron]

Yes and since there's no transparency how do I know you didn't bump it up to -6 just prove your point?  

I care little about making any point to prove you wrong. Don't be silly. Playing games with you in that manner is about as low on my priority list as it gets. That, and you didn't do much in my eyes to deserve a positive point from me.

edit:  But anyway it hardly matters, this is a forum and it's not like the forum police are going to come to my house and have me arrested for bad karma.

Now we're talkin'!

[garrettm30]

The Karma discussion obviously is something several people feel passionate about. I would like to respond to a few of these points myself, but I do think we could move it out of this thread. There is already a topic about the Karma where people have in the past voiced some opinions. If anyone is interested, I will post some of my own thoughts about what was said in that other topic:

http://forums.x-pilot.com/index.php?topic=80.0