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Peter Hager A380


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#61 Kiedels

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 11:55 AM

How many people have bought the A380? Because on X-Plane.org everybody is saying that it is a really good plane.

#62 inktomi

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 02:55 PM

I would have, but I'm pretty sure my computer can't deal with it =(

I'm happy with his the couple 330s I have though.

#63 Kaphias

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 03:33 PM

I would have, but I'm pretty sure my computer can't deal with it =(

I'm happy with his the couple 330s I have though.

Quote from the page in the DLM at the org:

Customers report good framerate even with only 256MB of RAM on a MAC.


Might be worth giving it a shot!

#64 Kiedels

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 04:24 PM

Maybe we shouldn't be critisizing him. I've been talking to him on skype and he does this for a living.

#65 Kiedels

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 04:35 PM

I'm trying to convince him to make the A380 better, and up to the customers expectations. He just doesn't have a lot of time.

#66 Cameron

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 04:47 PM

Maybe we shouldn't be critisizing him. I've been talking to him on skype and he does this for a living.


I've been silent on this topic, but I think there's been enough posts now to see where everyone is at. First off, as a publisher of payware products I and the other developers behind them understand that criticizing is all part of the gig. Most criticism is the stem of what people WANT, and as such, should be taken as constructive from developers regardless of whether it's harsh or not. Decide what the masses say (don't focus on just one), and assess what's worth it to YOU as a developer or publisher. Just because this is Peter's job (if it is), doesn't mean we should be criticizing him or anyone else any less (this includes X-Aviation products). He's taking people's hard earned money, and I'm sure he'd like their money again. If he DOES want it again, he's going to need to face the criticism and show that he cares so not as to leave a sour taste in a customers mouth.

The main consensus here and other places is that people feel the product does not JUSTIFY a ~ $65USD price tag. All the bickering here tells me people want or would be willing to give his plane a shot, but not for that amount of cash. To a consumer it appears a bad investment compared to what they have gotten in the past for less money.

I'm trying to convince him to make the A380 better, and up to the customers expectations. He just doesn't have a lot of time.


Didn't you say he does this for a living?  

Worth that much? Nothing. But because he outsourced the 3D model and asked for so much to be put into it, he has to charge that much or else he would lose money.


While it's not my goal to bash Peter, I must say that I'm willing to bet that for this product in the state it is now he'd probably be making more cash flow with a lower price tag. It's all economics, but with a lower price tag for something that appears and is admittedly incomplete comes more revenues and less opposition/criticism since the expectation of what the package offers is lower.

At the end of the day Peter has his place in the XP market and feels his work is worth the price tag. To him, maybe it's not all the cash that matters, but what he feels his own work is worth (thus I would chalk this up to a hobby and not a living for him). The buying public may not agree, and they'll make their statement by not making the purchase.

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#67 YYZatcboy

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 06:28 PM

If anyone does have this aircraft, would you be so kind as to post a review of it so we can get an idea of what it's like?

#68 Airbus

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:25 PM

192,449 triangles thats how you do it! This is my benchmark of quality. Only if X-Plane had a rendering engine this beautiful :'(. You don't need 1.5million polys if so you can add a tonn of detail with that threshold of 1.5mill! Watch in 1080p! :D This is my favorite super car BTW!

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#69 OlaHaldor

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 08:37 AM

Well, this is just that - a rendered sequence. Pre-rendered. Not in-game. Reflections, and some times transparency too (depending on application and settings) is rendered using "ray tracing".

I know nVidia has done some testing with ray traced rendering in-game. I don't know how the performance is, but it depends on one very negative thing regarding XP. It requires DirectX. XP uses OpenGL in order to power all platforms it supports..

However, it MAY be possible to implement general reflection maps. I use LightWave 3D for my work, and there we have a flag for showing multiple layers of texture, including reflection maps. GLSL. Takes some time to load, but it's at least a possibility. If only they could take a look at that in XP10. :D

No matter what the future holds, GT5 and the Koenigsegg looks good.

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#70 Jack Skieczius

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 03:28 PM

You know, the things i always liked about modeling 3d cars was its great for the beginner, in the fact you don't really need a fancy texture job on them, as they are basically one color, but you can learn all about reflections and such. There is also HDRI in that render too.

XP needs reflection mapping, ray traced like this, and i do believe OpenGL can accomplish this. It can do a lot of things that direct x can do despite what one may hear.

#71 Sulman

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 04:24 AM

People are valuing the product here solely on cosmetic criteria. An interesting perspective, for an X-plane community.

It is interesting - and rather worrying -  to me that there has not been one comment in this discussion regarding flight model accuracy or documentation with the A380; the two other corners of the payware triangle, and an area that I hope the CRJ gets right. I'll buy it anyway; but you get my meaning. It is irrelevant whether there's a pretty VC and 3D model if there's scant documentation and you haven't a clue how the thing flies. When it comes to simming with performance-critical aircraft, one cannot have enough data. PMDG learnt this 13yrs ago (it is how they started in the FS community) and their documentation is still the standard, in my opinion. Peter Hager, as I understand it, is very thorough in this discipline.

This is an area of X-Plane (and MSFS, but winds me up more with X-plane because I hold it to a higher standard) that continues to frustrate me; utterly fantastic models are released basically 'as is'; test flying - whilst great fun - is rapidly replaced with frustration when one cannot plan a flight regime thoroughly;  it is actually far easier to learn the plane when you know the numbers you're aiming for in a given flight regime.

Rgds


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#72 Cameron

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 06:17 AM

People are valuing the product here solely on cosmetic criteria. An interesting perspective, for an X-plane community.


Why shouldn't they? If you're dumping $65 down, one would hope you get great craftsmanship and a great flight model. I can't attest to the flight model (I haven't bought it), but it's quite obvious there are things lacking...something admitted by the author.

It is interesting - and rather worrying -  to me that there has not been one comment in this discussion regarding flight model accuracy or documentation with the A380; the two other corners of the payware triangle, and an area that I hope the CRJ gets right. I'll buy it anyway; but you get my meaning.


I find this statement rather contradictory. Why should people complain or be concerned about this if Peter is well known for good flight models? You went on to say: "Peter Hager, as I understand it, is very thorough in this discipline." So if he's so thorough in it, doesn't it make sense that this is NOT the center of complaint at the given time? I certainly see it that way.

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#73 Sulman

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 06:26 AM

Cameron,

Balance, in a word. Anything looks bad if one only focuses on weaknesses. It is entirely possible there may be $65 of value locked into the rest of the product.


J

#74 Mikkel

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 07:18 AM

I own the A330. For the price it is ok. The flight model is as good as possible within X-Plane. The panel and system modelling is, well, generic - which is sort of reasonable within the price-range.
Even with an exterior model as the A380 including perhaps what-ever upgrades the panel would get to reach A380 standard I still wouldn't pay 65 $. Thing is: to simulate the systems you'd need a plug-in. Otherwise it requires work-around after work-around... which leads to a rather unsatisfying and not really realistic flying experience. That is, if you are looking for a realistic flying experience. Otherwise you may not care too much.

The A380 doesn't come with a 3D-cockpit. Taking into account the generic simulation of the airbus systems and the overdone exterior model with just as poor a paint as the A330ies I'm amazed people are defending the product. It is overprized compared to its features. For 10 $ less you could buy the very realistic PMDG B744 (FSX), which features most if not all systems, a very precise FMC, airac updated navdata (via navigraph) with full P-RNAV SIDs and STARs incl. approach procedures for each rwy at each airport. As well you get fantastic documentation including performance charts for all phases of flight, checklists etc. etc.

(I haven't flown MSFS since 2002, so no reason to start an X-Plane-MSFS war-thread)

The A380, I'm sure, is probably still an entertaining product (even at that price). It's just very poor value for money.

Following the developers on this site shows hope that we'll see MSFS-quality like products (or even much better) within X-Plane very soon. I'm looking forward to it. Keep up the good work.

#75 Sulman

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 08:08 AM

The A380 doesn't come with a 3D-cockpit. Taking into account the generic simulation of the airbus systems and the overdone exterior model with just as poor a paint as the A330ies I'm amazed people are defending the product. It is overprized compared to its features. For 10 $ less you could buy the very realistic PMDG B744 (FSX), which features most if not all systems, a very precise FMC, airac updated navdata (via navigraph) with full P-RNAV SIDs and STARs incl. approach procedures for each rwy at each airport. As well you get fantastic documentation including performance charts for all phases of flight, checklists etc. etc.

(I haven't flown MSFS since 2002, so no reason to start an X-Plane-MSFS war-thread)

The A380, I'm sure, is probably still an entertaining product (even at that price). It's just very poor value for money.

Following the developers on this site shows hope that we'll see MSFS-quality like products (or even much better) within X-Plane very soon. I'm looking forward to it. Keep up the good work.


Fair enough. That's what I was getting at.

Something I've wondered about is the genesis of many MSFS developers. PMDG & Level-D produce incredible stuff, and it works very well. The systems modelling you speak of in MSFS is still something that keeps me there for large aircraft (it's half the fun, really) whereas GA for me is about flying the aircraft and enjoying the view; and I prefer X-plane for the latter. I'm assuming the method is in increasingly complex gauge programming; but aren't we approaching this level of fidelity with plugins? I know the level of talent is at least equalled in the X-Plane community, and I wonder if in X-Aviation and the CRJ guys etc we are seeing the beginnings of our own PMDG's and Level-D's.

I'm really hoping for a landmark aircraft for X-plane, not least to show the FS crowd what is possible.

#76 Cameron

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 08:10 AM

Cameron,

Balance, in a word. Anything looks bad if one only focuses on weaknesses. It is entirely possible there may be $65 of value locked into the rest of the product.


J



Sorry, I disagree. If this product was priced at $20-25, you'd be seeing less of this "focus" on the weaknesses. The only $65 value in this product is what Peter values himself at...which is completely acceptable..to HIM. If you're going to compare it with what the rest of the market offers, then this is a very overpriced product. That's the simple explanation of it all! His other products appear to be more fair priced (and are told to be more complete than the A380), and as such, you don't hear the complaints. Adding an obj model to your product doesn't instantly make it worth $30 more in majority of the markets eyes...as seen with most posts here.

The A380, I'm sure, is probably still an entertaining product (even at that price). It's just very poor value for money.


Exactly what I've said in an earlier post.

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#77 MaidenFan

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 05:23 PM

I'm having a really hard time pulling the trigger on the A380. I think Peter needs to take a look at X-Aviation. Their most expensive product is $30 and it's a damn good one. Hopefully most people aren't buying the A380, which might make him lower the price. Is the A340 that he makes as good.

#78 Kesomir

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 06:34 AM

From what I have read:

Peters simulations side of things is fairly top notch. His 3d isn't and the a380's model was bought in and then converted for use in x-plane. This made the model inefficient in sim and resulted in no 3d cockpit.

If you are into high-sim and fly with 2d panel, and really want an a380, then this is probably of value to you - get it.

If you are used to MSFS add on standards, and want the 'whole package' including 3d pit, then you're going to be disappointed with it at the price - but there is no A380 to compete, so if you want that plane and money is no object, this is the one to get currently.

I think peter would do well to team up with a modeller in the way that Anton works with Javier and Goran/Theo's programmers work with them. This would allow his to put out a complete product and stay competitive as the x-plane add on market matures and moves on.
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#79 dpny

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 01:53 PM

From what I have read:

Peters simulations side of things is fairly top notch. His 3d isn't and the a380's model was bought in and then converted for use in x-plane. This made the model inefficient in sim and resulted in no 3d cockpit.

If you are into high-sim and fly with 2d panel, and really want an a380, then this is probably of value to you - get it.

If you are used to MSFS add on standards, and want the 'whole package' including 3d pit, then you're going to be disappointed with it at the price - but there is no A380 to compete, so if you want that plane and money is no object, this is the one to get currently.

I think peter would do well to team up with a modeller in the way that Anton works with Javier and Goran/Theo's programmers work with them. This would allow his to put out a complete product and stay competitive as the x-plane add on market matures and moves on.


Not sure what you mean in the last paragraph: Peter does work with a modeller. That's who made the A380 model.

As for lack of a 3D cockpit: Peter's argument is that good 2D panels are better for practicing to use the real thing than 3D cockpits. Considering that real life Airbus pilots use his planes to practice flying, I'd say he makes a pretty good argument.

If you want an Airbus model which simulates the real thing very closely, i.e., it flies and handles right on the numbers, then it's a good buy.

#80 Cameron

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:00 PM

Not sure what you mean in the last paragraph: Peter does work with a modeller. That's who made the A380 model.


Can you share where you have received this information? All other readings I have done indicate the model is purchased.

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