Big T Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 The lag time is because pretty much all of us do this part time or as a hobby for a bit of petty cash. and this is exactly where you'll remain with this sort of attitude! Ben, You acting like a freaking little kid. Right now, You are no better than the jerk hammers at the .ORG at this moment. Agreed your acting like a real D-bag! Then again I'm sure it matters little to you since I have zero rep with such a small number of posts and the fact I haven't published anything for XP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchegg Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I would be more than happy to hear this frooglesim guy out. He comes across as a very nice guy. Before today, I'd never even heard of him, so watching a good chunk of his videos would give me better insight into what he's all about. The only questions I have is why did he stop at 3 developers? Which developers did he ask and which Publishers did he ask? Reasonable questions. Only 3 developers does sound like he didn't exactly go hell for leather. I'll shoot him a PM to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froogle Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) What an interesting thread. Hi Goran - the 3 devs I contacted I suspect missed the emails because I sent from frooglesim, instead of from my normal email address. Goran you were one of them - you'll recall that the PC Pilot award badge you proudly display on your DC3 in the store was awarded by me (Peter Wright) in my review of your product some time ago. I've been trying to get updated download links for the 64 bit version as well as your new aircraft. No biggie, part of the idea of the video was to get you guys (the collective "you guys" in the X-Plane dev world to sit up) and I am resending emails and broadening their reach. Ben can sit there saying "Froogle who" all day long, but here we are in a two page thread carrying my name, so I guess it worked. Now to address the bulk of the issues in this thread, and the inference from Ben that my ethics are questionable and reviews are for sale. Almost every single review on the frooglesim channel, and many I write for PC Pilot are made with software I buy. I do that to support the community, and to give me the freedom to say what I want about a product without feeling an obligation or tie. Most of the reviews in the magazine are made with software explicitly provided by the developer for the purposes of review, a practice not uncommon in any industry you care to name. From the developer standpoint it's called marketing - sending new products to influential voices in the hope they will review the product. From the journalism standpoint it's just business as usual, writing about the products we see and reviewing them where appropriate as long as the free product does not interfere with the opinion stated in the piece and the relationship between reviewer and producer is clear and disclosed. In my case, products i receive for review do absolutely not bias my opinion - look at some of my recent reviews in the magazine, some of which got me in very hot water for expressing a highly negative opinion. With regard to my involvement with X-Plane, I have been writing about it for years in the magazine. Many years ago for example I helped kicked off X-Planes exposure with an in-depth look at the product itself, plus a multi-page interview with Austin. Since then I've reviewed a few products of interest in X-Plane but the simple fact of the matter, the unfortunate fact, is that the vast majority of the audience are X-Plane shy and want FSX . That's also where the bulk of new products launch, so naturally it's where the bulk of content in a magazine or indeed on my YouTube channel is focussed. From the comments I see on the channel, many are interested in X-Plane but trot out the same old excuses as to why they are not using it (and why they are not your potential customers). The UI is poor. The colors seem off. Their add-ons don't work. FSX looks better. FSX has more choice etc etc. That's what I want to address. Today if I throw up a video on a product it's actually rarely just that one product. A2A's Cessna for example was covered in video with sky textures from REX, weather from Active Sky, scenery from Orbx, control input filtering from FSUIPC, post effects from Shade. It makes the videos visually appealling and it shows FSX as a platform in the best light, enabling the rest of the video to then focus on the content at hand. In contrast I did a number of videos of the Worldliner 77 and the comments quickly turned to focus in on what X-Plane stock looks and feels like since behind the aircraft that's all your seeing. I want to start a series looking at X-Plane itself but in the best possible light and that's what the VLOG was calling for. I want to show people that X-Plane can look better than FSX, that there is a thriving marketplace out there that people can tap into to extend and enhance it, and that switching to a better flight model does not mean sacrificing the aesthetics people have grown to love in FSX. However, I don't have all that stuff and so reached out to ask you, developers and publishers, what would I need to make X-Plane awesome? What are your best of breed add-ons and enhancements that you believe I really should include in the videos to really shine a light on X-Plane in the best possible way. This isn't biasing a review, in the same way that A2A's Cessna didn't get a great review because the clouds looked nice, or there were animated people on the ground at the airport. Yes, Ben, the vast majority of the audience on Frooglesim are currently invested in FSX. Asking you guys to undertake what is effectively a marketing exercise to sway them did not, and does not, to me seem unrealistic. I'm giving you a platform to market your products to a captive audience in one of the fastest growing simulation YouTube channels in the world (almost 15,000 subs and growing at 12% per month) and in a channel that is almost viral in nature (again, here we are in a separate place on the Internet discussing my videos - see how that worked out?). Given that I also want to focus in on X-Plane and get a fairly steady stream of content up I also went the magazine route and reached out asking you to supply content to review under typical review terms (that being that the review is not in any way biased just because you provided the product for free). Please also bear in mind that 'reviews' probably represent less than 50% of the channel. The bulk of content on the channel is demonstration/tutorial in nature. I released a series of videos on the NGX some 12 to 18 months after the NGX released showing how to fly with it and those videos collectively went on to gain 1/4 of a million views and become one of the most popular NGX series on YouTube - they almost certainly drove traffic to PMDG as well. If some of you wish to sit back indignant and do nothing then so be it - ultimately increased exposure for X-Plane benefits you anyway - but it does sadden me to see Ben's attitude towards any form of journalism. *Edited to clarify the channel's growth* Edited October 29, 2013 by froogle 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froogle Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Reasonable questions. Only 3 developers does sound like he didn't exactly go hell for leather. I'll shoot him a PM to ask. Correct - I tested the waters with contacts I already have from working on reviews of their products previously - hence my surprise. But as I said it probably is due to me sending from frooglesim, instead of my normal email address. I'm broadening the request now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big T Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) I would be more than happy to hear this frooglesim guy out. He comes across as a very nice guy. Before today, I'd never even heard of him, so watching a good chunk of his videos would give me better insight into what he's all about. I thought the same thing and decided to sub to his channel. Glad to see your a bit more open minded and not set on believing the guys out for some free chicken. The only questions I have is why did he stop at 3 developers? Which developers did he ask and which Publishers did he ask? You'll have to ask him that. Edit - Looks like Mr. Froogle replied while I X-posted. Edited October 29, 2013 by Big T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froogle Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I thought the same thing and decided to sub to his channel. Glad to see your a bit more open minded and not set on believing the guys out for some free chicken. You'll have to ask him that. Just to re-iterate, I didn't stop at 3. I've since been messaging more - it was that number at the time the video was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicFrawg Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Hey Pete well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchegg Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 OK Pete (actually, can I call you Froogle?), thanks for dropping by. You can ignore the PM I just sent on FB. And good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froogle Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 OK Pete (actually, can I call you Froogle?), thanks for dropping by. You can ignore the PM I just sent on FB. And good luck! Pete or Froogle works - that's why the intro on the videos says both and the second channel is named FrooglePete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchegg Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 BTW I think Ben's a pussycat really. He's just having one of those days. He did Gizmo. He can't be all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froogle Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 BTW I think Ben's a pussycat really. He's just having one of those days. He did Gizmo. He can't be all bad. Sure. Gizmo is part of the DC3, which I absolutely loved when I reviewed it. Ben's entitled to his opinion, and I can see his point of view entirely. If a developer wants to drop me a note or PM and say, as Ben did, business is tough I'd really rather not provide you with a free product for review, then that's fine. I think that's what Ben was saying reading between the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicFrawg Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 To be honest with you, I was a little shocked with that attitude from someone at X-Pilot. X-Pilot is filled with tons of great people and you have direct access to the people making X-Plane happen.I want to see X-Plane Grow and I would Like to see more study level aircraft published. Be it I am no where near the level of Pete's influence, I still try and do my part by providing a Live Stream of X-Plane 10 and the latest addons to show what it is capable of. Bottom line the more people that move over to X-Plane, the better for everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasscockpits Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Well I see we have another uphill battle to get X-Plane recognized. Not only do we have to fight the FSX crowd, we now have the X-Plane guys to worry about. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baber20 Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I can definitely vouch for Froogle here. He is an awesome guy. Wonder why 'some' people have to be d-bag everytime. The guy is generally trying to promote XP and all you can come up with is beyond retarded arguments and justifications. Such attitude is not helping the image of X-Plane in the flightsim community. Just my 2cents. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicFrawg Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Guys, Ben is a good guy. I just think he could have handled it in a different way. Please don't bash on him, I think he got the point. Edited October 29, 2013 by AtomicFrawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ben serves a very valid point in here through his posts collectively to which many of you seem to be taking to near extreme. His argument overall is not centered around Pete/Froogle. Be careful who you call a "d-bag" or similar. The door is not far behind you. Re-read objectively and be a bit more open minded before you go calling one of the guys who has produced software that brings to market some of the best add-ons to date (and coming...like IXEG) any names. Truth hurts? Here's another one. You're a dick. Don't do that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big T Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Stating a person is "Acting like X" vs. is an "X" is a different; but your point is valid, taken, and understood. Edited October 29, 2013 by Big T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Stating a person is "Acting like X" vs. is an "X" is a different Given your word of choice to describe one's behavior, this argument is very weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyrooc Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I have to admit I was not far behind Ben. However, Mr Froogle has turned up and written a short novel, answered a few questions, and upped his cred a bit in my book. If he wants to make a name for himself in the worlds best desktop flight sim ( ) community, then good for him, and I wish him every success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froogle Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I have to admit I was not far behind Ben. However, Mr Froogle has turned up and written a short novel, answered a few questions, and upped his cred a bit in my book. If he wants to make a name for himself in the worlds best desktop flight sim ( ) community, then good for him, and I wish him every success.Forgive me for splitting hairs here, it's a curse I'm afflicted with, but I've got to correct one point here. I'm not interested in any way in "making a name" for myself. I mentioned in my short novel that I've been writing about X-Plane for a while and was trying to think back to when I started - I think I have it around 2001 or so. What I'm interested in is driving attention to an area of our hobby that I believe has previously been under represented or misrepresented because while I have a heavy professional and personal investment in FSX I don't see it having a future that should be supported. I don't believe any of us should continue to have to put up with memory limitations, single core speed limitations etc etc, and I do believe in X-Plane. My goal here then is actually giving back. I'm "lucky" in that I've built a significant following with single videos I put up now often gaining more attention than entire editions of the print magazine I write for. That's a tool that can be used and I want to use it to help. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkyler Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Ben serves a very valid point in here through his posts collectively to which many of you seem to be taking to near extreme I see his Ben's points, but the rheotoric does seem unusually heated today. When I started the MU2, one of the primary goals was to show the FSX community what x-plane can do. Exposure is never bad, this is the way..you MUST sell your wares, you must throw them in front of people, most will not come looking. We need regular simmers and we need impulse buyers to put enough money in our pocket to make it to the next and better product and so on and so on. Besides, Pete doesn't strike me as a guy who does this to leech freeware. There was a quote I read in a book and I can't remember who said it that said, "Conversation is king...content is just something to talk about" and if Froogle is conversing about x-plane, then there is nothing bad that come come from that IMO. As far as these customers being "far away", they're actually only one sale away. I know a lot of folks who came to x-plane when the MU2 came out....you get converts one person at a time. I'm all for getting in front of as many FSX folks as we can. I have plans to teach folks x-plane in a new way but we need the audience. TomK Edited October 29, 2013 by tkyler 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasscockpits Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Exposure is never bad, this is the way..you MUST sell your wares Whewwww, thank you Tom, you saved the day for me. I was seriously questioning the attitude over here. Goran also seems to have caught on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Whewwww, thank you Tom, you saved the day for me. I was seriously questioning the attitude over here. Goran also seems to have caught on. No one is doubting the benefits of exposure. If your take away was only this, then you have missed the point for which Ben was trying to convey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdn_Jay_Ryan Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 The point is (which this Froogle chap doesn't seem to get), is that he's an FSX guy, not an X-Plane guy. So, he's just a random blogger asking for free content. As he says, FSX is running out of steam, so he want to keep his blog going by switching to X-Plane. Fair enough, but he should try joining a forum or two (like here), make a few contributions, and make himself known first. IMHO.His tag line is 'everything sim', not 'FSX sim'. He doesn't need to be on any forums. He has a successful Youtube channel and writes for PC Pilot. I think he makes a fine contribution to the community that way. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big T Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 If your take away was only this, then you have missed the point for which Ben was trying to convey. I understood his point and agree that there is truth in what he is saying about media reviews but the way he went about discrediting the guy as a nobody looking for some free software came off as being an elitist. With that said Cameron I have always respected your opinion and looking back at this with objectivity I'm glad to see calmer heads prevail. Regardless I should not have used the derogatory remarks to describe Ben's action, it was inappropriate and I openly apologize to him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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