Just For The Record

[tkyler]

lol..so true Joe on x-plane development.

Regarding pirating software as a student for educational purposes...I too, did the same thing.  I have held true to not making money using pirated software though.  Its a whole other rant though on "the spirit of the law" vs. "the letter of the law".  Laws are conceived in spirit, but executed by letter for the  most part.  So we could say that piracy by you (who would purchase the software at first opportunity) is OK while in school..while piracy by some other peer (who would go on to use it illegally after school) isn't OK.  We're exercising prejudice in such a situation which the law cannot cover as we're dealing with immeasurable but very real issues...human character.  So while society must use the letter of the law in most instances....on a personal level, we tend to "feel" the spirit of the law.  So what seemingly is a double standard might be with respect to legal text ...but not be with respect our general sense of morality.   It's a fallable system though as not everybody has the same sense of morality  or discernment and people can lie and indeed even not be sure of or aware of the source of their motivations....but hey, that is humanity isn't it?   I love it!  I'd hate to see a world only full of x-plane developer personalities :-P  

[hobofat]

I have to admit, I do not understand your logic MdMax.  I'm not trying to be argumentative here, or to put down you legitimate feelings regarding DRM (your post brought up a really good point regarding the user license), but let me hash this out for a second from my perspective:

1) Your message essentially states that DRM does nothing to deter piracy but only causes hassles for the legitimate purchaser of the product.

2) DRM on the MU-2 allows you to fully use the product, and in the event you change your hardware or computer, the license you purchased ensures that you the legitimate owner will be re-issued the password to unlock the product.  This may lead to a short delay, but you privately contracted for that when you purchased the product.  Under no circumstance does it lead to a constitutional deprivation of your property rights (at least under the U.S. constitution).  You can argue this point if you want, but do please bring legal authority to the debate if you choose to do so.

3) So, the DRM which is in fact and in practice very non-restrictive (you are having some major issues if you need to keep on getting passwords reset), enables you the user to fully enjoy the software you legally purchase.

4)  But would not allow you to share the software with your friend.

5)  Rather than being irrelevant, Cameron's statistics show that the MU-2's DRM has limited piracy from torrent sites.

6)  So really the only hassle to the legitimate purchaser would be if they wanted to share the software with their friend, which is in fact piracy.  But you don't do that, because you are a legitimate user who respects the license.

7)  Instead of looking at it as an accusation against your honesty, it would be better for your mental health to consider it a measure keeping honest people honest.  I lock my bike when I ride it to the store not because I wish to accuse everyone of being a thief, but rather to deter those people who see things they like which are easy access and just take them.  Similarly, those of you so fortunate most likely lock your cars.  It is a slight inconvenience (especially if I change my "hardware" and have to reset my bike lock password), but is in fact a viable solution to several problems.

8 )  The end result, you bought the product and are clearly enjoying it!  Compare that to the person who has stated they will never buy the MU-2 because of the DRM.  Not only do they not have to go through one of the most hassle-free DRM activations on the market, they also don't have to enjoy this wonderful product like we who purchased it do.  But I feel safe knowing that they also won't be able to just go and download the product I spent my hard-earned cash on.

9)  I do agree that it would be best for X-Scenery to post a copy of the license agreement on their website that you can see in advance.  But even if they did people wouldn't read it.  I encourage you to go read your cell phone/internet/insurance contracts and go check out all the wonderful ways they are screwing you over that you didn't even know about because you failed to read the fine print.  There are equitable remedies in U.S. courts at least for contract provisions that are "unconscionable" that you the end-user didn't have any ability to alter, but it's a really costly and difficult thing to prove in court.

10)  While I do not condone software piracy in any form, I do agree with the sentiment behind the posts on the "spirit of the law."  I am studying to be a lawyer (4 more classes and one bar exam to go), and too often people get caught up in the text of the law, rather than the effect the law was intended to have.  Luckily most universities have contracts with Adobe and Microsoft for students to get heavy discounts, so this type of "educational purposes" software testing isn't as necessary anymore.  For those who have graduated or never went, I feel the pain.  $699 for photoshop?  Really?  I'll stick with TheGimp tyvm.

11)  Tirade over.  Not sure why I enumerated my paragraphs.

[MdMax]

;D I think we have a lot good news in this topic:

- Cameron told us that for future products, we'll have an automated re-activation. Human contact and e-mails are fine, but are also a lot of work for the author or vendor, and that can make support costs very high. I guess most questions you have to answer are about keys and about the DRM, not about bugs or add-on problems. But, even with the best possible support, customers from other timezones may have to wait a few hours for an answer. An automated re-activation would make it possible to re-activate the product within a few minutes. When I was using Windows and FS2004 I bought some Flight1 products. With their website and with the e-mails you got after the purchase, it's very easy to get a new key if you change your hardware.

- We learned a lot about the DRM inside the MU-2. We can reinstall the product if we need to do it, and we can ask for a new key. The DRM is just used to activate or enable the product like a serial number and we're entitled to use it for as long as we like. So engines will not stop because we were using the add-on more than 4 hours per week, or because one day we'll be in 2011.

- For now, X-Plane add-ons are a "niche market". If this changes, the use of DRM may be "re-evaluated". I really hope this will happen, not only because of the DRM, but also because it will make it possible to create more and more high-quality add-ons for X-Plane. It will also make sure authors and vendors will be well paid for their hard work and talent.

- I'm happy to see that something has been prepared in case of a major problem with X-Aviation. I hope we'll never need this key utility and that X-Aviation will last forever. But if not, customers may still have a solution from Google if X-Aviation ever goes out of business. So SimSoftWorkshop's story will not repeat here.

- Tom agreed that information about the licence should be available before people buy the add-on. I think this is important. And I even think the licence should be "accepted" during the purchase or a least during the installation. Hobofat is right when he says people wouldn't read it. Most people will not read it, they will just scroll the text and click "I agree" if the website or software requests it. But I think it's important for the vendor to make sure it has been displayed on the customer's screen. Without this, in some countries you wouldn't be able to tell a court that a customer did violate the terms of the contract. For now it's easy for him to prove he never saw this contract and he'll say he didn't know that he was not allowed to distribute the software (and to sell millions of copies). And it's important for customers to know software is a like service, it's not like hardware you really own, you can sell, share, or give away. It's important for them to know what the licence allows and not, that authors are behind this software and that they have rights. Young generations don't know this and don't care about this... sometimes they even don't know that they're sharing their complete filesystem on P2P networks. But that's another big problem.

Now I have a question... you decided to use DRM and I respect that even if I don't like DRM. But can this technology make it possible to release a time limited demo of the MU-2 ? That would make it possible for customers to try the product before they buy it (like the X-Plane demo). I'm not sure, but this may be an additional way to show Flight Simulator users that excellent add-ons are available in X-Plane, and that X-Plane should be something else than just a "niche market".

[Cameron]

I guess most questions you have to answer are about keys and about the DRM, not about bugs or add-on problems.

Believe it or not, we really get minimal DRM key issues, and a ton of tech support stuff. Most common issues are improper installations of the plug-in, or people asking why the plane rolls so much, etc. It's generally stuff covered by the manual that people don't read, but such is life!

But, even with the best possible support, customers from other timezones may have to wait a few hours for an answer.

Our response times on average are 15 minutes or less 24hrs a day. Sometimes it falls a little longer, but not by much. This is part of our commitment to our customers that we care to give a good experience.

Now I have a question... you decided to use DRM and I respect that even if I don't like DRM. But can this technology make it possible to release a time limited demo of the MU-2 ? That would make it possible for customers to try the product before they buy it (like the X-Plane demo). I'm not sure, but this may be an additional way to show Flight Simulator users that excellent add-ons are available in X-Plane, and that X-Plane should be something else than just a "niche market".

The DRM does allow for a demo version. In fact, we created one for the MU-2, however, given that the technology within the demo would essentially be the same as the real one to "lock" it unless you buy, it enables people who ARE willing to try and crack it a free shot without having to invest their money and taking the risk of not being able to crack it should that have been their intention. As such, it was decided against releasing such a demo.

[dainja556]

Sorry to add to this topic so late.  I've been busy (I deployed to the Middle East in February).

I just wanted to add one thing.  If you're not a fan of DRM, like myself, don't spend too much time complaining about the fact that the product includes it.

The developers are going to do what benefits them the most financially.  That's not a crime.  If you don't like it, don't buy the product.  If DRM makes them more money than they would make without it, it makes good business sense to keep it.

The intention of my original post was just to let the developers know that they lost a sale (well, a few sales at this point), not to bitch and moan or argue about it.  I have no problems affording the MU-2 and some of the other models that are sold on X-Aviation, but for now I'm sticking to my principles.

[tkyler]

but for now I'm sticking to my principles.

I can certainly admire that.

We're not just set on giving up DRM at the moment, but as we've mentioned before, we are moving towards making it easier and more flexible.  The end result we're looking to achieve is simply entering your x-aviation data and hit one button and be done with it, one time on each machine...across multiple computers even.  That's literally no more work than logging into x-plane.org or x-pilot...and only once no less.

I think this approach takes away every single argument against our DRM inconvenience save for two.

1.)  Its extra work to enter your x-aviation user name and pass, even just one time....pfff

2.)  It makes someone feel like a criminal....pfff

I can live with both of those complaints.

If the technology, expertise or some logistical issue prevented maintenance of the DRM system in any way, then x-scenery products at least would be converted to non-DRM.  For that to happen, basically 3 folks would have to all die at the same time for customers to be left out in the cold.  Several of us have the capacity to strip the DRM from x-scenery products and re-distribute if it ever came to that.  I've even left instructions with my wife on what to do about it if something should happen to me. 

[dainja556]

Even though I'm not ready to accept DRM, I definitely admire the work y'all do to make sure it's not a problem for users.

[Cameron]

To add to this, given how old the topic is, we have kept our word and moved to the easier in-sim system. In case you haven't seen it, you can see a video of it in operation here:

This was originally discussed as an "upcoming" feature in reply 12 of this thread. It's been released now since March.

As long as you enjoy X-Plane yourself, that's all that matters.

[segfault]

Hello!

First of all: Your aircraft are fantastic.

But of course there are 2 reasons why i will never buy your products:

1) No Linux support in combination with your complete lack of interest to change that. And you really have to look for this information to find it. BUT IT IS AS IMPORTANT AS THE PRICE.

But okay ... your products are outstanding, i could live with it (grr)....

2) DRM. Sure other companies use it too. But do i buy their drm? No. I will never ask a company if i may please change my computer or reinstall my operation system. How many companies of how many products do I have to contact if this would be ... "normal"?

How many minutes of my time will accumulate?

No. Never.

This is just for the record.

Best regards,

-1 customer

[tkyler]

First of all: Your aircraft are fantastic.

Thank you very much!

But of course there are 2 reasons why i will never buy your products:

1) No Linux support in combination with your complete lack of interest to change that. And you really have to look for this information to find it. BUT IT IS AS IMPORTANT AS THE PRICE.

You're assumption on my lack of interest is way off base.  You should check with someone before you interpret their motives.  Both my products run on every platform x-plane does.  My products are designed to work with x-plane, not a platform.  I concede that other's lack of triple platform support causes doubt in customers mind as to what platforms are support by products and I NEED to clarify this on mine and XA's website, we'll do that!  .  The Falco is currently a special case though and we handle Linux Falco users on a per request basis for the moment.

2) DRM. Sure other companies use it too. But do i buy their drm? No. I will never ask a company if i may please change my computer or reinstall my operation system. How many companies of how many products do I have to contact if this would be ... "normal"?

How many minutes of my time will accumulate?

Assuming that you had to contact a lot of companies, it would indeed be a PITA...same as driving cross country in a  Model T Ford...but technology gets better and someone has to be first!  What does this mean?  It means that as time progresses, you won't have to ask us to change machines but we'll still be using DRM to keep people from spreading it around...how we do this is our business.  

This method of software management WILL be the norm in 5+ years.  Already big software companies are "leasing" and "renting" their software, and those ARE tied to hardware.  As more companies do this, it WILL be cumbersome to the end user you are correct and the market will dictate that a new solution be demanded; hence our goals to make multi-machine DRM a reality in our market.  So let me ask....IF you did not have to ask us to change computers, would you be against the DRM then?  According to your reasoning, that would be a no and hopefully we can get you as a customer once we rectify that situation....unless you have another problem with it.

In conclusion, I totally respect your comment as "just for the record" and am not trying to convince you.  I am merely putting my "for the record" response for others to read.  We are one of the first companies to be involved in web-based management of our software in this market and we expect a fair amount to be uncomfortable with it and from a business perspective, that is a risk we obviously are willing to take.  I do thank you for you opinion though, it helps us get insight in how to better develop for all customers.

[segfault]

Well i cant let this unanswered....

i assume you know it already but english is not my native language. Sorry if i sound harsh or rude :

1) Well, as far is i know the plugin for Mu-2 (GPS ???) do not work with linux. I pay the full price, get not 100% of the product and perhaps i even know that when its too late. (i know this from other sources than xscenery which is the official contact i BELIEVE!)

Your PR is deficent. But this is a very different story and i could live with it (GRR )

2) Okay this sounds very very adventourus and i am SURE it WILL not happen in this dimension. This kind of speculations you describe as truth looks frivolous by the way. Music industry is clearly shipping AWAY from drm. Lets think about it for a moment:

Someone mentioned "digital restriction management". Very accurate: Customers loose their rights completely and are completely regulated by the drm-companies. Of course, you permit unlimited usage of your products, but this is GOODWILL! Tomorrow you can change your oppinion. It would be legal. You just said it: DRM let you lease your software. A huge overshoot to "fight piracy"

What is the next step after 5 years when everybody WILL use drm? start and landing fees?

if you ask me drm can never be successful as long as it is harware bound. Human BUY (not lease) software, not harware.

People do not buy drm music. I do not buy drm whatever!

Now its time for me to speculate:

How many people you could certainly keep you from piracy with drm?  ZERO

How many people BOUGHT your planes certainly after they could NOT download them illegal? ZERO

How many POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS DID NOT BUY because of drm? TWO. (1 for sure) 

IF you did not have to ask us to change computers, would you be against the DRM then?

I would NOT be against DRM IF i get the freedom

- to install it on all my computers

- to install and uninstall as often is i want

- to use it as long as i want (ya your allow that currently i know ... technically you have the power to stop that now)

- no drm spyware which CAN (ya i know you dont ^^) control and LIMIT the _LEASING_RIGHTS_ of your software you BOUGHT!

Did you know about ebooks and Amazons "kindle" in germany? Amazon deleted special pdfs remotely, over night.

Too much power for anybody.

[tkyler]

i assume you know it already but english is not my native language. Sorry if i sound harsh or rude

Actually, it is very well I believe.

Music industry is clearly shipping AWAY from drm. Lets think about it for a moment

well...AFTER they made a few billion dollars.  After I make a million bucks, I'll probably relax a bit on my DRM too.

I am not disagreeing that what people want most is freedom, it is certainly fundamental to our way of life in the US and other countries as well; however, with the advent of the internet, freedoms will diminish whether we like it or not and each of us will have to take steps to try and best control our outcomes in life to be the way we want them.  When this happens, not everyone will be satisfied.  Life has no guarantees, Apple computer could fall tomorrow, so could Google or Dropbox and we would all lose some convenience if that happened.  The only thing we can do is consider if what we are willing to give up for something balances out what we gain in return.  For you DRM clearly does not, but for others it does.

How many people you could certainly keep you from piracy with drm?  ZERO

keep from piracy?  none!  Keep people from sharing a 100% working product?  100%

How many people BOUGHT your planes certainly after they could NOT download them illegal? ZERO

Many more than Zero.  We have data to support this.

Thank you for your response though but you will never have absolute freedom and the very internet service you use to communicate with me is dependent upon someone else and their technology....there will ALWAYS be some level of trust you must put forth to get something in return and this will vary from situation to situation.  I understand that with DRM though, this is not for you and that is OK.

[Cameron]

1) Well, as far is i know the plugin for Mu-2 (GPS ???) do not work with linux. I pay the full price, get not 100% of the product and perhaps i even know that when its too late. (i know this from other sources than xscenery which is the official contact i BELIEVE!)

Whomever told you this is incorrect. The MU-2 is 100% compatible with Linux. It has been since day one, and ships with a Linux plugin.

[Dozer]

I think there is confusion: the Windows MU-2 supports the RealityXP GNS430 (which is a completely separate product, sold by a completely different company!). But you can't get the RealityXP GNS430 on Linux, I believe? I think Segfault's comments on Linux support completely relate to RealityXP, not X-Scenery (or X-Aviation or X-Pilot).

Who needs GPS anyway when you've got two VORs, DME and ADF? On that note - Tom - when will we get MU-2 v1.5 :P

[tkyler]

Man I wish I knew...it's one of those 95% done, 95% to go things.  I'm chipping away at it and it seems imminent, but my plate is quite full of higher priorities.  Best I can do is keep at it.  I do report in the progress thread whenever I work on it no matter how little so people know when I'm making progress, so keep that eye there! 

[segfault]

1) Well, as far is i know the plugin for Mu-2 (GPS ???) do not work with linux. I pay the full price, get not 100% of the product and perhaps i even know that when its too late. (i know this from other sources than xscenery which is the official contact i BELIEVE!)

Whomever told you this is incorrect. The MU-2 is 100% compatible with Linux. It has been since day one, and ships with a Linux plugin.

This is nice to hear indeed!

Dozer could be right ... i dont know where i read this. I stopped to investigate after i heared its drm...

Sorry for the confusion.

[tkyler]

Segfault,  all I can promise you is I listen to and consider your concerns.  I too have to deal with DRM in many of the softwares that I use and I know what I like and don't like and the best that I can do is try to balance everything the best I can.  Customer freedom and flexibility is at the top of my list though, I promise you that.

[Dozer]

I've just checked RealityXP's website, and on the FAQ page for the X-Plane G430 (http://www.reality-xp.com/flightsim/gns430-xpl/faq/index.html) they state:

Does Reality XP GNS 430W XP run on Mac OSX or Linux?

The GNS WAAS simulation for X-Plane uses a helper application from Garmin designed and compatible with the Windows Operating System only. However, our labs are trying to leverage virtualization technologies like Parallels Desktop or VMware Fusion to bridge the Garmin GNS simulation components with X-Plane on Mac OSX for a future version.

Complaining to X-Aviation/X-Pilot/X-Scenery/X-Plane/Tom because the MU-2 doesn't support the RealityXP G430 under Linux is like complaining to Volkswagen that you can't put a jet engine in your Beetle if you're driving it in Germany :-)

edit: I've just read the rest of the FAQ. It looks like, behind the scenes RealityXP G430 is really Garmin's own G430 simulator, which is a free download and certainly Windows-only forever (if you can afford a real Garmin GPS, you can afford to buy a Windows PC to run their trainer!). RealityXP 'just' link it to MSFS/X-Plane and sell the whole lot for $50. So for a Linux/Mac version, RealityXP would have to reverse-engineer the Garmin simulator and remake it for Linux/Mac, and they're probably not familiar with those platforms.

[junkshot]

I found this conversation while looking more into X-Plane 10.  I’ve tried X-Plane 9 on my Mac, but kept using MSFS on my PC.  My PC motherboard is dead now, and would like to stick with my Mac only so I am exploring that option again.  I would like to add to this conversation, and give you a perspective from a software pirate; particularly flight sim related piracy.  I have pirated my share of flight sim related software and I will give you my viewpoint.

Business should aim to please the customer with a combination of high quality products, support, and appreciation.  Making a product, such as software, frustrating for the end user is never good for business.  Even if your product is of high quality, another company will come in; they will produce a product as good or better, and they will see the demand to make the product easy on the end user, and the people will gravitate towards that company.

DRM is a feature in software that only hurts the end user who has legitimately purchased the software.  Most DRM punishes the end user, and the one who has pirated the software never experiences the DRM.  DRM is an imperfect design created by imperfect beings.  Regardless of how basic or complex the DRM is; someone, or a team of people, will hack it, crack it, patch it, and have it available within a day of release.  I have downloaded the MU-2 before, it was a previous version, and may have not had DRM at the time.  If it did, I did not notice it at all, but your legitimate customers did.  It also reminds me of the funny piracy animations I see.  One starts with what a customer sees when they purchase a DVD.  All of the anti piracy warnings, the anti piracy ads, along with all of the other ads for movies embedded on there before you can get to the movie.  Then there is what the person sees when they have a pirated movie; which is just the movie.  The customer who purchased that movie is being affected, not the pirate.

I have seen some pretty creative DRM that does a good job at trying to punish the pirate and not the customer.  PMDG has gone through great lengths to do this.  They have hidden bombs in their addons that are set to go off if certain things trigger it.  It can be by uploading paint schemes, it could even be the installation of another PMDG addon.  I wonder how much time, effort, and money they waste, and the cost passed on to the consumer for this.  It hasn’t worked for them, in fact, the more elaborate and complex the DRM, the more determined certain people are to crack it.  There are people out there, and teams of people who do this as a hobby; they enjoy the challenge.

I have downloaded a number of addons from most every developer.  These developers have used a wide range of DRM and other anti-piracy measures, and I’ve had all of them install.  Your time, and effort put forth in DRM will not hinder me.

There is another side to piracy.  That’s the cost of software, and the ability to test it.  Flight sim addons are very much a niche market, but market rules still apply.  When you release a product, you must accept the facts that not only are you competing with other developers, but you are also competing against your own product on a black market.  Your product, your packaging of the product, and your pricing must compete with itself on another market that is essentially free.

You will always have people who will just not want to spend any money on anything.  That’s not the majority of software pirates.  Most of them find that the cost of the product exceeds what the market demands; or the cost of the product exceeds its quality and expectations of the potential consumer. 

This is very true for flight sim addons.  I have been burned a number of times buying addons that ended up being trash, and not meeting my expectations of realism.  Many addons do not provide a trial, and the ones that do have a very limited trial of a few minutes.  Therefor, I pirate all of my addons first.  After using them for a few days, if I feel that it meets my demands, I purchase it.  I’ve pirated all of PMDG products, and paid for the MD-11; I deleted all of the others.  I pirated all of Captain Sim products; I deleted all of them.  I’ve pirated Level-D 767, and paid for it.  I’ve pirated many of the Aerosoft products; some I paid for, some I deleted.  If I feel that the product is worth it, I will pay for it.  Many addons are a huge rip off.  I will no longer take the risk regardless of how well established the company is.

PMDG charges 80 dollars for their MD-11.  That’s a lot of money for an addon, and is cost prohibitive for many people.  I wonder how many more units they would have sold if it were 30 or 40 dollars.  There are many people who would love to buy that MD-11, along with some other addons, but simply can’t afford it, or won’t take the risk in case they are disappointed or not use it much.  I think there are some good ways around this that I’ll get into soon.

There are forums dedicated to the piracy of flight sim addons.  People can pay five, or ten dollars to get access.  Then often, people donate even more after they get access.  The money collected through memberships and donations goes into buying addons, cracking them, and then distributing them.  People are willing to pay, but how developers view market pricing and how consumers view it differs.  In that situation, people get more bang for their buck.  They spend 30 dollars on an MU-2 or donate 30 dollars and get ten addons in return.

When I bought my first Mac, I decided I wanted to try X-Plane.  I pirated it, and am glad I did.  I did not like it as much as flight sim.  I thought, maybe if I could find some high quality addons I might.  I found your MU-2, and I pirated it.  The version I pirated was an older one and did not work so well with the newer version of X-Plane.  Without a full trial, I wasn’t willing to take the risk to buy your product, and X-Plane.  I’ve since deleted both.

Your MU-2 was hard to find, and it had nothing to do with DRM or pricing.  It had everything to do with market share.  Microsoft Flight Simulator and its addons are more sought after and are more distributed.  If X-Plane gains in market share, and your company maintains its reputation as a quality addon maker for X-Plane; your products will be taken, stripped of their DRM, and made available on forums and torrent sites.

I see two main options for providing a product like yours; payware and donationware.  The way I would do it would depend on the market.  Payware is obviously the most common way to provide a product.  If I were providing products and using this method, I would take a different approach.  First the product would use a simple serial number to activate it.  Anything more is a waste of my time and provides no benefit to the consumer. 

Secondly, I would have a full working demo of my product that would work for at least seven days.  I want the consumer to get to know my product, I want that person to use it daily like they would if they owned, I want them to fall in love with the product.  When that seven days is up, I want them to be impressed, and wanting more, and ready to go to my site to purchase it.

Last, I would set the price to be very competitive.  I want to compete with my competition, and my product on the torrent sites.  I would provide a customer experience that they can’t get from a torrent site.  I think this is part of the reason why apps for the iPhone sell so well even though they can be found on torrent sites.  To use pirated apps on an iPhone you have to jailbreak it, which is no big deal.  Why bother though if the apps only cost a dollar to a few dollars?  It’s just not worth the trouble.

The other option, and my favorite, is donationware.  I think donationware is a great way to determine the market value for a product.  It’s interesting to see how donations work so well in many areas.  Independent software, music, radio, and news is dominating right now.  People are providing free content in many ways, to the point that it’s starting to hurt the traditional methods of delivering content.  Podcasts are hurting talk radio, and many of them run on donations.  The same goes for blogs and news sites.  Some musicians have reported record sales though donations instead of a fixed price.

I think it would be interesting to release two products.  One that has a fixed price, and the other that is donationware, and see which one brings in more sales.  People can pay what they think the product is worth to them.  You put in a lot of effort and make it high quality, people will reward you. 

Imagine PMDG releasing their MD-11 as donationware.  Some people would just get it and use it.  Some people, who can’t afford the 80 dollars, but appreciate it enough to give what they can will.  Some who really love it might give 80 or more willingly.  I think it’s a great concept that works well in other areas, and may work well in flight sim.  I think it would be awesome if you made a product like a Pilatus PC-12, and did this.  See which method brings in the most money.

Products beyond flightsim addons, products that I use and love, I pay for.  A program that I use so often, and that has helped me in a budgeting program.  I see it for download on the torrent sites, but I paid for it.  I would have paid double what they were asking because it’s so good, and I use it so much.  They offer a full working trial, simple serial number, excellent customer support, an excellent customer experience, my purchase buys me more than just the software, and the price is spot on.  These are all things that need to be considered. 

This is long, and that’s my take on things.  Please chime in if you like.

[Goran_M]

I found this conversation while looking more into X-Plane 10.  I’ve tried X-Plane 9 on my Mac, but kept using MSFS on my PC.  My PC motherboard is dead now, and would like to stick with my Mac only so I am exploring that option again.  I would like to add to this conversation, and give you a perspective from a software pirate; particularly flight sim related piracy.  I have pirated my share of flight sim related software and I will give you my viewpoint.

Business should aim to please the customer with a combination of high quality products, support, and appreciation.  Making a product, such as software, frustrating for the end user is never good for business.  Even if your product is of high quality, another company will come in; they will produce a product as good or better, and they will see the demand to make the product easy on the end user, and the people will gravitate towards that company.

DRM is a feature in software that only hurts the end user who has legitimately purchased the software.  Most DRM punishes the end user, and the one who has pirated the software never experiences the DRM.  DRM is an imperfect design created by imperfect beings.  Regardless of how basic or complex the DRM is; someone, or a team of people, will hack it, crack it, patch it, and have it available within a day of release.  I have downloaded the MU-2 before, it was a previous version, and may have not had DRM at the time.  If it did, I did not notice it at all, but your legitimate customers did.  It also reminds me of the funny piracy animations I see.  One starts with what a customer sees when they purchase a DVD.  All of the anti piracy warnings, the anti piracy ads, along with all of the other ads for movies embedded on there before you can get to the movie.  Then there is what the person sees when they have a pirated movie; which is just the movie.  The customer who purchased that movie is being affected, not the pirate.

I have seen some pretty creative DRM that does a good job at trying to punish the pirate and not the customer.  PMDG has gone through great lengths to do this.  They have hidden bombs in their addons that are set to go off if certain things trigger it.  It can be by uploading paint schemes, it could even be the installation of another PMDG addon.  I wonder how much time, effort, and money they waste, and the cost passed on to the consumer for this.  It hasn’t worked for them, in fact, the more elaborate and complex the DRM, the more determined certain people are to crack it.  There are people out there, and teams of people who do this as a hobby; they enjoy the challenge.

I have downloaded a number of addons from most every developer.  These developers have used a wide range of DRM and other anti-piracy measures, and I’ve had all of them install.  Your time, and effort put forth in DRM will not hinder me.

There is another side to piracy.  That’s the cost of software, and the ability to test it.  Flight sim addons are very much a niche market, but market rules still apply.  When you release a product, you must accept the facts that not only are you competing with other developers, but you are also competing against your own product on a black market.  Your product, your packaging of the product, and your pricing must compete with itself on another market that is essentially free.

You will always have people who will just not want to spend any money on anything.  That’s not the majority of software pirates.  Most of them find that the cost of the product exceeds what the market demands; or the cost of the product exceeds its quality and expectations of the potential consumer. 

This is very true for flight sim addons.  I have been burned a number of times buying addons that ended up being trash, and not meeting my expectations of realism.  Many addons do not provide a trial, and the ones that do have a very limited trial of a few minutes.  Therefor, I pirate all of my addons first.  After using them for a few days, if I feel that it meets my demands, I purchase it.  I’ve pirated all of PMDG products, and paid for the MD-11; I deleted all of the others.  I pirated all of Captain Sim products; I deleted all of them.  I’ve pirated Level-D 767, and paid for it.   I’ve pirated many of the Aerosoft products; some I paid for, some I deleted.  If I feel that the product is worth it, I will pay for it.  Many addons are a huge rip off.  I will no longer take the risk regardless of how well established the company is.

PMDG charges 80 dollars for their MD-11.  That’s a lot of money for an addon, and is cost prohibitive for many people.  I wonder how many more units they would have sold if it were 30 or 40 dollars.  There are many people who would love to buy that MD-11, along with some other addons, but simply can’t afford it, or won’t take the risk in case they are disappointed or not use it much.  I think there are some good ways around this that I’ll get into soon.

There are forums dedicated to the piracy of flight sim addons.  People can pay five, or ten dollars to get access.  Then often, people donate even more after they get access.  The money collected through memberships and donations goes into buying addons, cracking them, and then distributing them.  People are willing to pay, but how developers view market pricing and how consumers view it differs.  In that situation, people get more bang for their buck.  They spend 30 dollars on an MU-2 or donate 30 dollars and get ten addons in return.

When I bought my first Mac, I decided I wanted to try X-Plane.  I pirated it, and am glad I did.  I did not like it as much as flight sim.  I thought, maybe if I could find some high quality addons I might.  I found your MU-2, and I pirated it.  The version I pirated was an older one and did not work so well with the newer version of X-Plane.  Without a full trial, I wasn’t willing to take the risk to buy your product, and X-Plane.  I’ve since deleted both.

Your MU-2 was hard to find, and it had nothing to do with DRM or pricing.  It had everything to do with market share.  Microsoft Flight Simulator and its addons are more sought after and are more distributed.  If X-Plane gains in market share, and your company maintains its reputation as a quality addon maker for X-Plane; your products will be taken, stripped of their DRM, and made available on forums and torrent sites.

I see two main options for providing a product like yours; payware and donationware.  The way I would do it would depend on the market.   Payware is obviously the most common way to provide a product.  If I were providing products and using this method, I would take a different approach.  First the product would use a simple serial number to activate it.  Anything more is a waste of my time and provides no benefit to the consumer. 

Secondly, I would have a full working demo of my product that would work for at least seven days.  I want the consumer to get to know my product, I want that person to use it daily like they would if they owned, I want them to fall in love with the product.  When that seven days is up, I want them to be impressed, and wanting more, and ready to go to my site to purchase it.

Last, I would set the price to be very competitive.  I want to compete with my competition, and my product on the torrent sites.   I would provide a customer experience that they can’t get from a torrent site.  I think this is part of the reason why apps for the iPhone sell so well even though they can be found on torrent sites.  To use pirated apps on an iPhone you have to jailbreak it, which is no big deal.  Why bother though if the apps only cost a dollar to a few dollars?  It’s just not worth the trouble.

The other option, and my favorite, is donationware.  I think donationware is a great way to determine the market value for a product.  It’s interesting to see how donations work so well in many areas.  Independent software, music, radio, and news is dominating right now.  People are providing free content in many ways, to the point that it’s starting to hurt the traditional methods of delivering content.  Podcasts are hurting talk radio, and many of them run on donations.  The same goes for blogs and news sites.  Some musicians have reported record sales though donations instead of a fixed price.

I think it would be interesting to release two products.  One that has a fixed price, and the other that is donationware, and see which one brings in more sales.  People can pay what they think the product is worth to them.  You put in a lot of effort and make it high quality, people will reward you. 

Imagine PMDG releasing their MD-11 as donationware.  Some people would just get it and use it.  Some people, who can’t afford the 80 dollars, but appreciate it enough to give what they can will.  Some who really love it might give 80 or more willingly.  I think it’s a great concept that works well in other areas, and may work well in flight sim.  I think it would be awesome if you made a product like a Pilatus PC-12, and did this.  See which method brings in the most money.

Products beyond flightsim addons, products that I use and love, I pay for.  A program that I use so often, and that has helped me in a budgeting program.  I see it for download on the torrent sites, but I paid for it.  I would have paid double what they were asking because it’s so good, and I use it so much.  They offer a full working trial, simple serial number, excellent customer support, an excellent customer experience, my purchase buys me more than just the software, and the price is spot on.  These are all things that need to be considered. 

This is long, and that’s my take on things.  Please chime in if you like.

I didn't think people were even born this stupid.  I'm monumentally amazed.

How's that for chiming in?

[Simmo W]

What does it say G? I lost the plot after para (?) 10. Executive Summary please?

[Goran_M]

Something about stealing the MU 2, PMDG aircraft, Captain Sim aircraft and aerosoft aircraft via torrents.

Basically, he's saying "I'm a moron.  Please re-enforce my belief!"

[tkyler]

Thanks for your input, but your view is very limited.   If I have a DRM product and 60% of the market is legit and 40% is black market, yet I make a million bucks on the 60% and that is sufficient for me...what do I care if 40% if pirated?   The goal set upon in the production of the product has been reached and/or exceeded.  

You're arguing a point from a minority of users, who's view, while understandable actually, represents a minority of pirates.   What people fail to realize is that we are software users ourselves....and I have pirated software myself also and have a rather solid handle on why I pirate and to what ends I pirate and whether or not it violates the spirit of the software license.   I have never used pirated software in the pursuit of income or pleasure.  

Having dealt with DRM ourselves, we are keenly aware of the "annoyances" associated with DRM and work to alleviate those annoyances.  We think we have succeeded to a pretty good degree...enough so that I even have DRM versions of my own products on my own machine. I actually have to get licenses from x-aviation to run  my own stuff!...and you know what?  It ain't that bad.    I have nothing to offer those who find it offensive or troublesome.  My personal opinion is that we deal with rights management all the time....whether digital or otherwise and if people get put off by having to enter a user name and password or send an email to troubleshoot a problem once a year, then screw em'  They're just lazy and inconsiderate and I don't care to have them as a customer.  I am doing well enough to gladly not have to deal with the whiners.  I am committed to my customers and have contingencies should I or x-aviation disappear to make sure my customers have access to the product they paid for for all time.  I can offer no more.  If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to buy it....or they can try and pirate it and crack it!  ;-)  Good luck on the MU-2...the DRM was programmed by one hell of a programmer!  By the time a product gets so in-demand that someone moves to crack it...chances are I'll be more than happy with my income and probably won't care and be on to other things.

[Dozer]

I purchased a Captain Sim product once. Then I deleted it and used the disk as a coaster.

[TOBS]

Nothing against software protection - but it should be clever and work on all supported operating systems. As Cameron told me several times the software protection is based on the mac number. This number changes if you install a new drive, new networkcard or a new OS etc. WIN7 changes mac numbers for security and is using multiple mac numbers. here it comes to a real conflict with the not software protection of the MU2. If the mac number changes your activation is gone and you have to ask for a new key - but then the mac number changes again and so on. I do not know why x-aviation do not use a clever protection like an usb dongle for all their licenses. All this discussed trouble are gone then. As a sounddesigner for cinema I am using a lot of protected software and the licenses are on two usb dongels - so I can carry around my "studio equipment" whereever I need it and do not have to ask new licenses nad to hear that it is my fault cuase my computer is changing mac adresses. Of course I found in an evening research a possibillity to stopp WIN7 from changing mac adresses - as I am not a computer specialist, I do not know exactly that I did the right thing when I followed the description to stop this mac changing. We will see - but nobody will giver me back the hours of struggling to use my payed software MU2. I really hope x-aviation will make something more intelligent and more userfriendly instead of an systems which do not support some modern OS.

Tom