Landing Flaps Kill The Approach

[Greaser]

I have practiced the one ILS approach many times, I think by now I have the flight procedures sorted. The main issue is when on a perfect ILS approach deploying the second stage (Landing) flaps it sends the plane straight upwards so much it kills the approach every time. I have tried deploying at different times/speeds but it just messes up the approach every time. I think this is a serious bug. The landing flaps are producing way too much lift. The only option I have right now, which I do not like by the way, is to not use landing flaps.  The other one is that on touch down it is very, very difficult to control the steering. Yes even with YD off and controller sensitivities zero.  This is not just me obviously, look on youtube everyone is having issues with ground handling.  I hope a change can be included in the next release to address these things.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Greaser

[pilotogerson]

Hy Greaser. I'll try to test it tonight to report to you, because I confess that I didn't any ILS with this bird.

I'm just flying manual in order to training and testing other things and systems, but as a real pilot in this real aircraft it is exactly what happens with TBMs when we are at a ILS and set LND FLAP, even with 90KIAS. We have to pitch a lot of nose down in order to recapture the GS.

My personal way to make ILS approaches in real ACFT is: I prefer to maintain TO FLAP, 100KIAS until that I have visual conditions. When I have visual, I set LND Flap, reduce power and reduce speed to 90KIAS. OF Couser that in real life, when we set power IDLE, I can reduce speed, but is the simulators, It not havens correct, for exemple, in real life I can maintain 200KIAS in the TBM and when is remain just 2NM to RWY, I can reduce power, after 175KIAS set GEAR Down, FLAP TO, after 120KIAS FLAP LND and in some days, I have to accelerate a little bit to get the RWY heheheh

ATENTION: A did write 175 and 120 just to preserve My equipment, I know that the speeds in manual are 178 and 122, OK guys.... hehehehehehehehehe 

I'll test it and report to you, OK.

MBR... 

Edited November 1, 2018 by pilotogerson

[VAL067]

Hi mate

I did quite a few ILS and RNAV approaches last night and she didn't budge off the G.S when deployment of 2nd stage flaps was introduced. My thinking into this is your trim setting near enough to T.O position before initiating APP especially the G.S as this helps immensely and are you properly established on the G.S in meaning have you given the aircraft enough time in 1st stage flaps to settle in on the G.S. sometimes this can make A.P APP chuck a hissy fit. Cheers

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[sd_flyer]

This is actually normal thing for the most airplanes. Depending on Center Pressure of Lift force,  deploying flaps will cause aircraft either pitch up or pitch down moment. For those airplanes that pitch up we use acronym "flaps down, nose down" meaning you have anticipate aircraft behavior and do appropriate control adjustment.

P.S. I normally drop  full flaps at glideslope intercept altitude

[Greaser]

What speed and trim settings work best for you all when deploying the landing flaps?  I will try the landing gear immediately after to see if that helps. 

[sdflyer]

I use 90 kts with full flaps. Elevator trim is adjusted to keep glideslop angle and speed


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[pilotogerson]

Well, I did the test, and the ACFT Works as expected:

In the first video, you can see that when setting LND FLAP, you have to reduce speed, But the TRIM Works a lot in order to descend and get the GS again.

In the other 2 vídeos, I make a land that I made in the this real airpot(SBGR) with the TBM that I fly, and it was perfect, just as I did, I land visual and vacate the RWY in 450meters

 

For me the ACFT is working perfect....

I hope that I helped..


And sorry by my poor english hehehehehe

 

[pilotogerson]

4 hours ago, Greaser said:

What speed and trim settings work best for you all when deploying the landing flaps?  I will try the landing gear immediately after to see if that helps. 

Weel, I´ll send my personal profile: 

When I intercept the final, even in NOM PRECISION or in a ILS Approach, I set the GEAR DOWN, confirm the TakeOFF Flap and monitor the speed up to 100KIAS.
As I told before, in IMC condition, I maintaing the TakeOFF FLAP until that I have visual conditions.
When I have RWY, ou ALS in sight, I set LND FLAP, AP OFF and control ACFT in order to make a manual Land. Of course, if I reach the DH or MDA+MAP and don´t have visual contact, I initiate a Missed Approach and when I´m flying with a LND FLAP, I just have to set GEAR UP, and Flap UP to make my Missed Approach....

I think that is good to talk that every pilot have your personal way to flight, of course that it can´t break the safety procedures...

 

See you guys...

MBR...

[sdflyer]

Guys when you established on ILS approach, you are not suppose to change landing configuration after.

So whatever you set before LOC/GS intercept keep it all way through landing unless you go missed


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[Greaser]

1 hour ago, pilotogerson said:

Well, I did the test, and the ACFT Works as expected:

In the first video, you can see that when setting LND FLAP, you have to reduce speed, But the TRIM Works a lot in order to descend and get the GS again.

In the other 2 vídeos, I make a land that I made in the this real airpot(SBGR) with the TBM that I fly, and it was perfect, just as I did, I land visual and vacate the RWY in 450meters

 

For me the ACFT is working perfect....

I hope that I helped..


And sorry by my poor english hehehehehe

 

It helps to reduce the speed to 90 before deploying landing flaps, but you should not be deploying the final flaps this late.

At higher speeds it really has a bigger effect and it triggers the plane to begin a climb.

Also your video shows the struggle to point the nose down to force it to descend, I saw the same.

It only "Works as expected" if the real plane behaves exactly the same.

I have watched real flight tbm 900 videos and still think this flight model needs work.

[cwjohan]

It's OK to fly the stabilized ILS approach on autopilot down to 200 ft, below which one must turn off the autopilot and ensure that YD is off.  It's probably best to have gear down and flaps TO below 173 KIAS  and the flaps at LDG position as soon as airspeed is reduced to 122 KIAS, which one should achieve before reaching the FAF (final approach fix).  Then, go to Idle power or just enough power to let the airspeed reduce to 85 KIAS during descent on the glideslope.  Airspeed can safely drop to as low as 65 KIAS (bottom of white zone on speed indicator) just before touchdown with flaps in LDG position and light or no wind.

 

Hopefully, what I am saying here is consistent with what pilotogerson and sdflyer have said and also with the normal procedures for this aircraft.  Please correct me if you disagree.

Edited June 14, 2019 by cwjohan
Added "and flaps TO"