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Hullu-poika

FMC route planing mistakes

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Hello to everyone.

May be this topic could merge several problems which might occur during a flight preparation.

 

From my side I'd like to point out following problem. When I choose arrival procedure at ENGM I am facing every time a little problem.

My actions:

  • press DEP/ARR buttoh;
  • chose arrival runway and approach type on the right side of a menu;
  • choose STAR on the left side;
  • choose transition point.

Result:

the STAR procedure is automatically erased from the route. The abscence of STAR can be visible on a map using a LEGS menu.

 

Solution:

I have to choose arrival runway and approach type on the right side of DEP/ARR menu once again. Then STAR procedure automatically appears (despite I do not choose STAR second time).

 

I am afraid it could be a bug in such a particular case for all STARs of ENGM.

By the way I have not checked another possibilities: probably a STAR is deleted after coosing of a transition. May be it is not necessary there to choose a transition point...

Edited by Morten

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Hi,

while I haven´t checked explicitly for ENGM, a lot of times STARs and TRANSitions nowadays live "side by side". It is not like in the old times (or in the US) where you have a STAR TRANSITION - then - STAR - then - TRANSITION - then - APPROACH - then - RUNWAY.

IF you look at EDDF, for example, you have many PSA STARs (starting at PSA), but also many PSA TRANSITIONs (starting at PSA). If you choose a PSA STAR and then a PSA transition, the STAR will be erazed again.

Cheers, Jan

 

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In addition to what Jan said, I'd suggest with the current version to always follow this sequence on selecting Arrivals:

STAR - TRANSITION (left side) - APP - TRANSITION (right side)

this should work fine, and that is in fact the "classic" way (US) to fill arrival procedures.

Now I recall it's been said (Jan please correct me if I'm wrong) that the next release of the FMC will allow for more flexible SID/STAR selection and to get a number of acknowledged bugs fixed.

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I have also noticed strange issues at ENGM if you dont do it in the "correct" order.

Do it this way.
STAR-RUNWAY-TRANSITION.

1 hour ago, Litjan said:

It is not like in the old times (or in the US) where you have a STAR TRANSITION - then - STAR - then - TRANSITION - then - APPROACH - then - RUNWAY.

Have you been in UUEE (Moscow)? .. 

I just gave up find the correct STAR and transitions. Its a mayhem.. ;)

 

Edited by Tom Stian

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3 minutes ago, Tom Stian said:

Have you been in UUEE (Moscow)? .. 

I just gave up find the correct STAR. Its a mayhem.. ;)

Yeah.. and when the ATC starts telling to descend to XXX METERS QFE YYYY?.. Not only STARS are a mess but you also have to mess up with conversions... :)

(I love flying to Russia by the way). 

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7 hours ago, crisk73 said:

Now I recall it's been said (Jan please correct me if I'm wrong) that the next release of the FMC will allow for more flexible SID/STAR selection and to get a number of acknowledged bugs fixed.

That is correct!

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On 31.01.2018 at 9:55 AM, Litjan said:

Hi,

while I haven´t checked explicitly for ENGM, a lot of times STARs and TRANSitions nowadays live "side by side". It is not like in the old times (or in the US) where you have a STAR TRANSITION - then - STAR - then - TRANSITION - then - APPROACH - then - RUNWAY.

IF you look at EDDF, for example, you have many PSA STARs (starting at PSA), but also many PSA TRANSITIONs (starting at PSA). If you choose a PSA STAR and then a PSA transition, the STAR will be erazed again.

Cheers, Jan

 

I guess there is a different thing in ENGM than in your example for EDDF.

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On 31.01.2018 at 11:37 AM, crisk73 said:

In addition to what Jan said, I'd suggest with the current version to always follow this sequence on selecting Arrivals:

STAR - TRANSITION (left side) - APP - TRANSITION (right side)

this should work fine, and that is in fact the "classic" way (US) to fill arrival procedures.

Now I recall it's been said (Jan please correct me if I'm wrong) that the next release of the FMC will allow for more flexible SID/STAR selection and to get a number of acknowledged bugs fixed.

Thank you!

Sorry guys. I was able to check this just a couple of weeks after your reply. It works well in such sequence!

But is not it more correct (for real operations) to choose a runway first and then an approach?

Edited by Hullu-poika

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13 hours ago, Hullu-poika said:

Thank you!

Sorry guys. I was able to check this just a couple of weeks after your reply. It works well in such sequence!

But is not it more correct (for real operations) to choose a runway first and then an approach?

I think that we have a fix in 1.21 to make the "other way" also work. So go ahead and try that and please let me know if it doesn´t work!

Cheers, Jan

 

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11 hours ago, Litjan said:

I think that we have a fix in 1.21 to make the "other way" also work. So go ahead and try that and please let me know if it doesn´t work!

Cheers, Jan

 

Confirmed! I have tried it with XP11 and "other way" worked good!

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