Wingflex

[cessnarox]

18 minutes ago, stringden said:

The world goes crazy. May be later somebody help me in my wish to have an exelent aircraft with biautiful WINGFLEX. You guys can futher play even with 2d panel. 

 

 

This is making me laugh so hard. I don't know why but its absolutely hilarious. How high does wingflex get you? And how long have you been addicted?

 

I happen to think it is not that important, and not even once while flying the plane have I noticed the lack of wing flex, particularly considering I can barely see the wings out of the cockpit window anyway.

[Tim013]

35 minutes ago, stringden said:

The world goes crazy. May be later somebody help me in my wish to have an exelent aircraft with biautiful WINGFLEX. You guys can futher play even with 2d panel. 

 

 

some of the aircraft in FSX have wing flex.  Does that help?

 

Tim

[stringden]

HELP very much. To enjoy the game.

[Yidahoo]

1 hour ago, stringden said:

Я рад за тебя. Молодец.

И я могу говорить по-русски. Спасибо.

 

[jafferhussian11]

29 minutes ago, stringden said:

HELP very much. To enjoy the game.

enjoy this....

http://makeagif.com/i/97ntAi

[frumpy]

25 minutes ago, Yidahoo said:

И я могу говорить по-русски. Спасибо.

 

Я не люблю вингфлекс!

 

Lets move on, guys! No wingsflex for now.

[sizziano]

HELP very much. To enjoy the game.

Heh, that seems to be your problem then. This isn't a game. Should wingflex be included? Yes, eventually. But not until more pressing matters have been addressed. Your obsession with this is very peculiar when there are much more glaring issues in the simulation side of things that don't seem to phase you.

[Eddie]

I also have to say, though, that "the IXEG is an excellent plane" isn't really a rebuttal. We get that the plane is great (we all fly it, obviously) but saying things like "it's the best plane ever, it doesn't need wingflex" isn't helpful to anyone.

I do agree there are more pressing matters.

[Morten]

Wingflex is on the to-do list, don't worry   I think however you will very soon get bored looking at it since the short and stiff wings of the 737CL require significant "bumps/turbulence" to get some visible action.  The winglet aircraft however will show slightly more movement.  The reason is winglets increases span and thus moves the center of lift further out on the wing causing increased bending moment.  It's also visually easier to notice offcourse when the whole winglet moves.

[donoscar]

19 hours ago, Eddie said:

I also have to say, though, that "the IXEG is an excellent plane" isn't really a rebuttal. We get that the plane is great (we all fly it, obviously) but saying things like "it's the best plane ever, it doesn't need wingflex" isn't helpful to anyone.

I do agree there are more pressing matters.

let me rephrase it for you: in the current state of IT hardware and software combinations necessary to run the complex systems we love, I prefer to have its flight dynamics, controls and systems tuned and further improved and extended, to give us the optimal simulation inside the cockpit, rather than seeing additional graphical enhancements that we will not enjoy (or only for a few minutes)  impacting performance. I use P3D, PMDG, GSX to satisfy my need for cartoon-ish atmosphere.

If we ask developers to include animations, not only they will impact the necessary performance, they also will need more time to develop it which of course raises its final price. It doesn't matter if we are in 2016 and IT hardware is better than what we used to have when running XP9 blablalba...., what I know about the number of calculations needed to run such elasticity model animations tells me the performance investment needed is in no relation to the benefit I get out of it. 

I want an optimally balanced simulation, that is what i consider the best for me, and at this very moment it is IXEG 737-300 Classic without animations, running smoothly and robust on my system.

[sizziano]

let me rephrase it for you: in the current state of IT hardware and software combinations necessary to run the complex systems we love, I prefer to have its flight dynamics, controls and systems tuned and further improved and extended, to give us the optimal simulation inside the cockpit, rather than seeing additional graphical enhancements that we will not enjoy (or only for a few minutes)  impacting performance. I use P3D, PMDG, GSX to satisfy my need for cartoon-ish atmosphere.

If we ask developers to include animations, not only they will impact the necessary performance, they also will need more time to develop it which of course raises its final price. It doesn't matter if we are in 2016 and IT hardware is better than what we used to have when running XP9 blablalba...., what I know about the number of calculations needed to run such elasticity model animations tells me the performance investment needed is in no relation to the benefit I get out of it. 

I want an optimally balanced simulation, that is what i consider the best for me, and at this very moment it is IXEG 737-300 Classic without animations, running smoothly and robust on my system.

I don't see how wingflex will meaningfully impact performance in any way.

[donoscar]

2 hours ago, sizziano said:

I don't see how wingflex will meaningfully impact performance in any way.

any additional item requires additional calculations and therefore performance.

you have a lot of calculations involved if you want a realistic model of flexing structures under dynamic forces. not sure the result justifies the investment. if you want just a bouncing wing, I think other examples have been cited that can satisfy that, but it's got few to do with reality. :-)

[sizziano]

any additional item requires additional calculations and therefore performance.

you have a lot of calculations involved if you want a realistic model of flexing structures under dynamic forces. not sure the result justifies the investment. if you want just a bouncing wing, I think other examples have been cited that can satisfy that, but it's got few to do with reality. :-)

The FJS method looks really good and doesn't seem to be that expensive. Sure everything adds up but this would be a trivial addition IMHO.

[donoscar]

12 minutes ago, sizziano said:

The FJS method looks really good and doesn't seem to be that expensive. Sure everything adds up but this would be a trivial addition IMHO.

unfortunately I do not own the FJS and cannot talk to it. heard lots of good things about it though, just got too late into X-Plane probably and got stuck with the latest releases.. either good or bad. I don't want to add too much to the discussion, as I think I made my position pretty clear, but the discussion as such I believe is very healthy. If IXEG deems this is a necessary addition this is their decision, and I promise, I will not throw away my 737 because of that . They would probably not give a ... anyway! 

what would be nice though is to have the ability to de-activate these features if someone like me is seeking pure performance. I know they are doing it already with certain animations so I hope this flexibility stays and is enhanced. 

 

Edited November 5, 2016 by donoscar

[sizziano]

unfortunately I do not own the FJS and cannot talk to it. heard lots of good things about it though, just got too late into X-Plane probably and got stuck with the latest releases.. either good or bad. I don't want to add too much to the discussion, as I think I made my position pretty clear, but the discussion as such I believe is very healthy. If IXEG deems this is a necessary addition this is their decision, and I promise, I will not throw away my 737 because of that . They would probably not give a ... anyway! [emoji3]

what would be nice though is to have the ability to de-activate these features if someone like me is seeking pure performance. I know they are doing it already with certain animations so I hope this flexibility stays and is enhanced. 

 

Well the 727 was just updated. Anyways Morten has already said wingflex will be added and the 767 and 757 from FF the wingflex can be tuned to your liking or completely turned off. Lots of other visual options as well.

[Eddie]

any additional item requires additional calculations and therefore performance.

you have a lot of calculations involved if you want a realistic model of flexing structures under dynamic forces. not sure the result justifies the investment. if you want just a bouncing wing, I think other examples have been cited that can satisfy that, but it's got few to do with reality. :-)

Strange that the much-lauded X-Plane flight model takes up barely any power on today's processors, then. I'm confident a wingflex simulation will be even less demanding.

[donoscar]

7 hours ago, Eddie said:

Strange that the much-lauded X-Plane flight model takes up barely any power on today's processors, then. I'm confident a wingflex simulation will be even less demanding.

nothing to do with flight model, go try to understand first which external, and internal actions have an impact on wingflex and you will realize it is a function that requires several iterations to calculate the polygons for one specific point in time which again depends on its position and dynamics of a previous point in time. In order to respect material elasticity, weight distributions, dynamic forces etc etc. such models, when used to produce animations for static analysis in engineering as an example, are pre-calculated for given set of conditions and and then injected into a rendering system.

we are asking X-Plane to do this job real-time!

I am not saying it is impossible to achieve an animation that gives you an impression of a well simulated flex at low performance impact, but it has nothing to do with real wingflex. (Please, don't mention FF again, I cannot consider any of their add-ons comparable with what we are talking about here)

There is  another question I ask myself though: I still wonder when I would be able to use that animation. The only moment we could really admire it is when we land, i.e in replay mode. On my side, replay is a black box, seems broken... custom animations not working well with almost any plane, IXEG even has the option to deactivate those in replay mode.

...now enough... I am going to fly.. without wingflex!

[sizziano]

nothing to do with flight model, go try to understand first which external, and internal actions have an impact on wingflex and you will realize it is a function that requires several iterations to calculate the polygons for one specific point in time which again depends on its position and dynamics of a previous point in time. In order to respect material elasticity, weight distributions, dynamic forces etc etc. such models, when used to produce animations for static analysis in engineering as an example, are pre-calculated for given set of conditions and and then injected into a rendering system.

we are asking X-Plane to do this job real-time!

I am not saying it is impossible to achieve an animation that gives you an impression of a well simulated flex at low performance impact, but it has nothing to do with real wingflex. (Please, don't mention FF again, I cannot consider any of their add-ons comparable with what we are talking about here)

There is  another question I ask myself though: I still wonder when I would be able to use that animation. The only moment we could really admire it is when we land, i.e in replay mode. On my side, replay is a black box, seems broken... custom animations not working well with almost any plane, IXEG even has the option to deactivate those in replay mode.

...now enough... I am going to fly.. without wingflex!

Nobody is mentioning FF in this context. I have mentioned FJS and their very good wing flex implementation. If you cycle with ctrl-m in the sim you will get a visual representation (albeit simplified) of the flight model. You can see how changes in lift for each section of the wing affect it's flex in real time and to varying degrees. If one man can do this and do it well, I see no reason why it couldn't be copied or even just applied to the FF birds since Jack is part of the dev team.

[donoscar]

3 minutes ago, sizziano said:

Nobody is mentioning FF in this context. I have mentioned FJS and their very good wing flex implementation. If you cycle with ctrl-m in the sim you will get a visual representation (albeit simplified) of the flight model. You can see how changes in lift for each section of the wing affect it's flex in real time and to varying degrees. If one man can do this and do it well, I see no reason why it couldn't be copied or even just applied to the FF birds since Jack is part of the dev team.

...what I call a bouncing model just looking at lift differentials... And you guys are happy paying for such eye-candy? 

[sizziano]

...what I call a bouncing model just looking at lift differentials... And you guys are happy paying for such eye-candy? 

Whatever it is or you want to call it, it looks better than anything else for XP and for me it's better than a static wing.

[donoscar]

On 11/4/2016 at 4:51 PM, Morten said:

Wingflex is on the to-do list, don't worry   I think however you will very soon get bored looking at it since the short and stiff wings of the 737CL require significant "bumps/turbulence" to get some visible action.  The winglet aircraft however will show slightly more movement.  The reason is winglets increases span and thus moves the center of lift further out on the wing causing increased bending moment.  It's also visually easier to notice offcourse when the whole winglet moves.

Does this mean the winglet version will also be updated to have the benefit of lower fuel consumption? This would have a much more significant impact than our winglex fetish. 

[sizziano]

Does this mean the winglet version will also be updated to have the benefit of lower fuel consumption? This would have a much more significant impact than our winglex fetish. 

About 4%, give or take [emoji6]

[donoscar]

5 minutes ago, sizziano said:

About 4%, give or take

 do you have the same figure for flex? 

[sizziano]

 do you have the same figure for flex? [emoji6]

Several dozen rabid XP users!

[Decknar727]

From what I've noted over my time of traveling with Southwest Airlines with my face pressed against the window like a kid looking for Santa, the classic 737's don't have much wing flex. Maybe just a smidge if any at all. Now if you've experienced some of those, awesome landings.... then you could possible see the wing bounce slightly along with the rest of the plane.