Clouds popping in/out

[xplana]

On 3.12.2016 at 7:05 PM, Cameron said:

I don't personally get re-draw. Guess you'll have to judge when everyone gets their hands on RWC v1.1 and SMP v4.

its that kind of pop in and pop out of clouds that is so annoying. Will we leave that behind with the new version?

 

 

[sundog]

xplana, honestly I've never seen that happen. If you'd like to start a support thread and post your log.txt after experiencing this, I'd be curious to try and understand what's going on there.

[Defiance_co]

Hiya's,

The nearest i've come to seeing that was when i was panning in external view, and sometimes up/down just kinda caught the whispy/misty light clouds and at an angle, so it was in effect a quick misty-somewhat clear (as if you're panning through a very thin layer while almost in that layer, if that makes sense)

I've never had anything like that above though, and i've messed with so many settings in smp3

No doubt if you post as Frank says he'll figure it out hehe

Have Fun

Tony

Edited December 13, 2016 by Defiance_co
added text

[Cameron]

2 hours ago, xplana said:

its that kind of pop in and pop out of clouds that is so annoying. Will we leave that behind with the new version?

Like Frank above, I have never seen or had this happen to me before, even in v3.

[3saul]

4 hours ago, xplana said:

its that kind of pop in and pop out of clouds that is so annoying. Will we leave that behind with the new version?

 

 

 

I see this behavior frequently when I fly with SMP3 and RWC. I'll lookout for the support thread and comment in there.

 

 

[Cameron]

 

I see this behavior frequently when I fly with SMP3 and RWC. I'll lookout for the support thread and comment in there.

 

 

Please do!

[xplana]

11 hours ago, 3saul said:

I see this behavior frequently when I fly with SMP3 and RWC. I'll lookout for the support thread and comment in there.

Same here, 24-7, every flight. Thought this is a normal behavior. 

 

Log.txt

Edited December 14, 2016 by xplana

[sizziano]

3 hours ago, xplana said:

Same here, 24-7, every flight. Thought this is a normal behavior. 

 

Log.txt

That's XP11

[xplana]

right, but there is no difference. 

Here again a shot from XP10 and the according log.txt

 

Log.txt

[xplana]

another take minutes later (00:40) in the video

 

[Defiance_co]

Hiya,

Remove (delete/drag out of plugins etc, not just disable them, as some can still run and effect things) (this includes pw planes etc too)

So all's you've got is a 100% stock sim + SMP and RWC if you've got it

See if it happens then

Tony

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by Defiance_co
added text

[sundog]

I think what you're seeing is your plane crossing 1-degree tile boundaries within X-Plane. When that happens, we must reposition our clouds within a new frame of reference, and sometimes that results in a few clouds appearing to move. We handle it the best we can at present. You should be seeing this happen only very infrequently - when you cross one degree of latitude or longitude.

That said there are also some rather alarming memory-related errors in your log.txt that may indicate some file corruption, so there may be some larger issue going on that's making it worse. I would recommend re-installing a clean X-Plane and then add in the the latest versions of the add-ons you use.

If you want to continue this discussion, please create a new thread for it. This isn't the place for it.

[ONDR4.cz]

4 hours ago, sundog said:

You should be seeing this happen only very infrequently - when you cross one degree of latitude or longitude.

Well, depends on your definition of 'very infrequently'. On a short 110 NM hop between two airports which takes like 30 minutes you need to fly over 3 such tiles so in fact you can see this happen every 10-15 minutes. But I understand that there is little you can do about it.

[Cameron]

Well, depends on your definition of 'very infrequently'.

Why bother even saying this? Some of the nitpickery I've seen in this community over the last couple of weeks for such minor or simple things as even words is exhausting and over dramatic.

I don't mean to only single you out, but it's becoming borderline ridiculous as a whole.

[Vantskruv]

@Cameron, @sundog

Can you please clarify, do you mean that redrawing really occurs for every degree of latitude and longitude change? If that is true, i.e. flying a STAR for ESSA would in the most extreme cases cross about 3-5 degrees of latitudes and longitudes combined. Also i.e. flying a from EFRO to ESSA which many may did in the Santa Flyin in VATSIM:

1 EFRO 0 66.561667 25.830833
11 OLNOP 0 66.18861099999999 24.705278
11 XONTU 0 65.940556 24.076667
11 VERAG 0 65.125528 21.987083
11 KETEL 0 64.199111 21.197222
11 ROSMO 0 63.699611 20.794222
11 VALAK 0 63.418611 20.574167
11 DEDIT 0 63.25825 20.450611
11 GALPI 0 62.846944 20.140278
11 BODRI 0 62.415 19.824167
11 SIPRI 0 60.845611 18.751722
3 HMR 0 60.279306 18.391583
1 ESSA 0 59.651944 17.918611

This flightplan crosses atleast 13 latitude/longitude degrees at a 475nm distance excluding the SIDS/STARS for departure and arrival airports.

The mean time value for crossing these borders would be about 5 minutes if flying a tube-liner, hence a redraw every 5 minute. At a descent which may take about 20-25 minutes would give about 4-5 redrawings.

I do state that this is indeed frequently, and I hope you have some type solution for this in your upcoming version?

 

[ONDR4.cz]

Cameron, I agree with you that some of the nitpicking here is ridiculous, but I was merely stating a fact. When you look at how small these 1x1 degree tiles actually are around 50° latitude (and it only gets worse when you go north), there is no way of this happening very infrequently unless you fly in a circle. Again, I understand it's a technical limitation, I just disagree with Sundog's statement.

[xXNightEagleXx]

Let's not talk about abrupt weather change that is partially fixed only when using with Ventura sky. I mean when I bought RWC I thought that those things would have gone (there's even an option in the settings) but it gets not even close. I believe that what is really missing in SMP+RWC is data interpolation and there is a risk that extending draw will not fix any abrupt change but only make it worse. I hope SMP 4 bring way better transitions, otherwise it will not fulfill what I'm looking for. I don't like the idea to install many addons (FLW, Python, noaa, Ventura sky) that takes some fps just to see RWC behaving like it should have done by itself.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sundog]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. When you cross a one degree line (and yes, if you're flying at high speed at high latitudes I suppose that could be just several minutes apart), we don't just trash everything and recreate the weather from scratch. X-Plane shifts into a new frame of reference when this happens, and we must re-calculate the internal positions of every cloud. Many times, you don't see this happen at all - the goal of the math is to leave the clouds exactly where they were relative to your plane. xplana's video shows there may be some cases where a few clouds don't survive this operation, which was news to me and something I've added to the list of things to investigate for future revisions.

 

[sundog]

Just now, xXNightEagleXx said:

Let's not talk about abrupt weather change that is partially fixed only when using with Ventura sky. I mean when I bought RWC I thought that those things would have gone (there's even an option in the settings) but it gets not even close. I believe that what is really missing in SMP+RWC is data interpolation and there is a risk that extending draw will not fix any abrupt change but only make it worse. I hope SMP 4 bring way better transitions, otherwise it will not fulfill what I'm looking for. I don't like the idea to install many addons (FLW, Python, noaa, Ventura sky) that takes some fps just to see RWC behaving like it should have done by itself.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about. If RWC is properly installed and set to "never change visible weather," the clouds should never just suddenly and abruptly change around you. Are you saying weather fronts and cloud banks just seem too defined for your tastes, and you'd rather see cloud coverage increase more gradually as you approach them? Or are you talking about things like fog and haze, which SMP/RWC doesn't claim to touch at all?

 

[xXNightEagleXx]

51 minutes ago, sundog said:

I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about. If RWC is properly installed and set to "never change visible weather," the clouds should never just suddenly and abruptly change around you. Are you saying weather fronts and cloud banks just seem too defined for your tastes, and you'd rather see cloud coverage increase more gradually as you approach them? Or are you talking about things like fog and haze, which SMP/RWC doesn't claim to touch at all?

 

First of all, in my experience "never change visible weather" never worked as i would have expected or at least not all the time, even PilotQ8 in his review experience that and state that he doesn't know whether it works or not. The guy up here is experiencing that since by "never change visible weather" i would expect that surround environment up to a given range should not change regardless pop in or pop out.

When i change the altitude due to a descent (specially from high altitude) there is always an abrupt overall visibility change (fog, clouds re-draw, etc...) some are move visible than others, well the result just kills the immersion.

When i first bought RWC i was new to XP and when i saw the review with "never change visible weather" options, i thought "wow this will fix all my weather issues with XP", shame on me, because at my home visible weather mean visible weather and not only a few components. Don't get me wrong, i do understand today, that i have more experience, that the whole weather thing is broken into many components and RWC will not fix that, not due technical limitations but rather concept decisions. In my opinion this self given limitations, are wrong because once you follow the enhance the weather path you should aim to enhance as much as you can,  otherwise you will end up with addons not giving all it can, unless another 3rd party addons fix/enhance yours....this is just plain wrong.

I mean we are not talking about something like "SMP should stop providing 2d textures and starts with volumetric clouds", which is partially an unknown path. We are talking about fix whatever breaks the immersion and has been clearly shown that it can be fixed/improved. So why not just fix/improve them and have it all part of the same package of addons?

I've always agreed with you when you talk about follow own concepts, because i don't believe that everyone should take the same path that leads to the same result. It is good to see where and what can be archived from multiple direction, but i would never agree with self concept limitations. 

NE

Edited December 16, 2016 by xXNightEagleXx

[Cameron]

So why not just fix/improve them and have it all part of the same package of addons?

Because the things you are talking about are accomplished via channels Laminar Research has been clear about not being supported and eventually subject to change. We are not going to create a payware addon that makes promises and may break at the drop of an update to X-Plane because Laminar finally followed through with their open ended promise.

The never change feature in RWC prevents new weather downloaded in your METAR file from leading if it has changed suddenly in the area you are visibly flying.

[xXNightEagleXx]

2 minutes ago, Cameron said:

Because the things you are talking about are accomplished via channels Laminar Research has been clear about not being supported and eventually subject to change. We are not going to create a payware addon that makes promises and may break at the drop of an update to X-Plane because Laminar finally followed through with their open ended promise.

Why create a new one when you have RWC? Why not just improve it instead of "spamming" addons that just increase the amount of calls that XP has to do? I mean if it is all about fog and haze, why not add this feature? By the way, ventura sky is 598 lines, so the amount of line/work is not that big either.....so why not just do this little thing to give a huge revamp to yours addons?

[sundog]

At least we're on the same page. As you descend into areas with reduced visibility, yes SMP will start fading away distant clouds that shouldn't be visible. We allow X-Plane, or whatever other addons you've chosen to install, to take control of visibility effects. Our clouds just try to honor the visibility we're given, and that's a conceptual choice as you said - not a defect in the software.

Ventura sky is great, but it does depend on many private art controls in X-Plane for its visibility effects. We've made the choice to play by the rules, for better or worse, and leave art control tinkering to others.

 

[Cameron]

Why create a new one when you have RWC? Why not just improve it instead of "spamming" addons that just increase the amount of calls that XP has to do? I mean if it is all about fog and haze, why not add this feature? By the way, ventura sky is 598 lines, so the amount of line/work is not that big either.....so why not just do this little thing to give a huge revamp to yours addons?

You evidently did not understand a word I said, because if you did, you wouldn't have asked what you just did.

And, when I said "create a payware addon" that was to mean RWC.

[xXNightEagleXx]

Indeed i did misunderstand.